Singapore Grand Prix 2010 - Marina Bay

[ringo]

I will agree that it was rather ambitious of LH seeing that the RB was clearly a much quicker car. That being said I feel a lot of you are not taking into account the fact that Mark was on the dirty side of the track and had to take a tighter radius around the turn. Due to these two reasons Mark should have been braking much earlier than LH. Mark tries to defend a lost position as he always does and tries to outbreak LH and hold the inside. Mark is barely able to turn in as he is moving way to fast to make the turn and clips LH. Had Mark braked at the proper point that would have allowed him to make the turn I am pretty confident that LH would have been a full car length ahead. Mark is only able to keep is front wheels inline with LH back wheels simply due to the fact that he had failed to brake at the appropriate point.

Anyways thats how I see it... That being said I don't think this incident warrants any penalty as its just the result of two drivers on the absolute limit. I don't want to see this happen again but Mark is Mark and he will always go for it regardless. I guess the bright side is that even LH realizes that this was just a racing incident and has moved on.

edit: This comes to mind when proving my point of trying to defend a lost position. In this case LH read the situation and Mark got the proper outcome...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG_CjosyJ9c

perfect post and perfect tone =D>
This post should have been here from the beginning and with that exact video to show how Mark typically drives. As i said, Lewis humiliates him with flashy overtakes everytime and he gets flustered.
Video shows perfectly how he brakes late and loses control.

Conclusion: mark's fault for being Mark, hard headed and lack of discipline.

No other driver is like this guy on the grid, None.

[djos]

Mark is a fighter... and we can't deny that. He will always grit his teeth and fight to the very end. While that can be an admirable, determined quality sometimes, there are times when it comes off as a stubborn defense.

When was the last time you saw Nando or Lewis give up without a hell of a fight?

When was the last time you saw Nando or Lewis take out another driver?

Actually Lewis was infamous for running other drivers off the road while agressively overtaking them in his first 2 seasons, in fact he did it to Mark several times so I call poetic justice!

EDIT: check out the minor wheel banger here while overtaking Mark (2:51) and the "lets push a Toyota of the circuit" at 6:20:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH7Kk37-53Q[/youtube]

[raymondu999]

The last time I remember Mark/Lewis banging wheels (or coming close to doing so) with each other is Monza 08... and I don't think those collisions have ever resulted in a DNF for either one. I could be wrong though.

[djos]

The last time I remember Mark/Lewis banging wheels (or coming close to doing so) with each other is Monza 08... and I don't think those collisions have ever resulted in a DNF for either one. I could be wrong though.

Lewis Deliberately chopped Webber in that instance and it almost ended in tears for Mark:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SejgDI ... re=related[/youtube]

[FW17]

The last time I remember Mark/Lewis banging wheels (or coming close to doing so) with each other is Monza 08... and I don't think those collisions have ever resulted in a DNF for either one. I could be wrong though.

Lewis Deliberately chopped Webber in that instance and it almost ended in tears for Mark:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SejgDI ... re=related[/youtube]

Hey what the Hell!! That looks like the exact same thing Webber did to his team mate in Turkey this year.

[raymondu999]

Oh dear. I think this is the Webber vs the world thread now :p

Please don't take this post the wrong way. It's all meant in good fun

In fact, here, have a slow-mo frame-by-frame

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDDiXZ_KT6g[/youtube]

[djos]

The last time I remember Mark/Lewis banging wheels (or coming close to doing so) with each other is Monza 08... and I don't think those collisions have ever resulted in a DNF for either one. I could be wrong though.

Lewis Deliberately chopped Webber in that instance and it almost ended in tears for Mark:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SejgDI ... re=related[/youtube]

Hey what the Hell!! That looks like the exact same thing Webber did to his team mate in Turkey this year.

What?? lewis came left towards mark and mark was heading left towards the grass to avoid (turkey was different with mark staying straight and seb turning right).

[raymondu999]

Well... errm. There
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDDiXZ_KT6g[/youtube]

[one_o_six]

I think Webber did the same he did in Istambul, occupy the clean tarmac zone at all cost, in order to force the other driver (Hamilton in Singapore, Vettel in Turkey) to cross the dirty area.
Cleaver move? No doubt. Fair move? Well... Ask Helmut Marko,for example.
Had Hamilton let him go, and perhaps Webber would not have finished the curb, due too much entry speed. OTOH, Hamilton was a little optimistic, as in Monza. I suspect he did not remember to check Webber's position again, after passing in on the straight line.
Other than that, the actual crash was very similar to the one between Hamilton and Massa, in Monza, but with Hamilton playing reverse roles, ironically with the same result. Should one blame the car's fragility?

In what way is Webber on the clean part of the track? Hamilton is clearly on the rubbered in part that allows better braking. I'm not sure what you mean.
Glad to see your opinion on Monza.

Right, at curb entrance, but Webber did try to seize it near the apex, forcing Hamilton to finish braking out of the clean area.

[komninosm]

I will agree that it was rather ambitious of LH seeing that the RB was clearly a much quicker car. That being said I feel a lot of you are not taking into account the fact that Mark was on the dirty side of the track and had to take a tighter radius around the turn. Due to these two reasons Mark should have been braking much earlier than LH. Mark tries to defend a lost position as he always does and tries to outbreak LH and hold the inside. Mark is barely able to turn in as he is moving way to fast to make the turn and clips LH. Had Mark braked at the proper point that would have allowed him to make the turn I am pretty confident that LH would have been a full car length ahead. Mark is only able to keep is front wheels inline with LH back wheels simply due to the fact that he had failed to brake at the appropriate point.

Anyways thats how I see it... That being said I don't think this incident warrants any penalty as its just the result of two drivers on the absolute limit. I don't want to see this happen again but Mark is Mark and he will always go for it regardless. I guess the bright side is that even LH realizes that this was just a racing incident and has moved on.

edit: This comes to mind when proving my point of trying to defend a lost position. In this case LH read the situation and Mark got the proper outcome...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG_CjosyJ9c

perfect post and perfect tone =D>
This post should have been here from the beginning and with that exact video to show how Mark typically drives. As i said, Lewis humiliates him with flashy overtakes everytime and he gets flustered.
Video shows perfectly how he brakes late and loses control.

Conclusion: mark's fault for being Mark, hard headed and lack of discipline.

No other driver is like this guy on the grid, None.

EPIC FAIL WEBBER.
That's pretty much what he did in Singapore too. He really should get penalized. He's even crashed into a car on a straight and taken to flight. Why no penalty for Singapore? [-X

[komninosm]

When was the last time you saw Nando or Lewis give up without a hell of a fight?

When was the last time you saw Nando or Lewis take out another driver?

Actually Lewis was infamous for running other drivers off the road while agressively overtaking them in his first 2 seasons, in fact he did it to Mark several times so I call poetic justice!

EDIT: check out the minor wheel banger here while overtaking Mark (2:51) and the "lets push a Toyota of the circuit" at 6:20:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH7Kk37-53Q[/youtube]

There's no contact at 2:51...

[andrew]

No but he still drives into Webber before the first chicane and then runs a Toyota onto the grass....

[komninosm]

The last time I remember Mark/Lewis banging wheels (or coming close to doing so) with each other is Monza 08... and I don't think those collisions have ever resulted in a DNF for either one. I could be wrong though.

Lewis Deliberately chopped Webber in that instance and it almost ended in tears for Mark:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6SejgDI ... re=related[/youtube]

100% Webber's fault again. Hamilton was way ahead and Webber brakes too late... again!

[andrew]

[komninosm]

I think Webber did the same he did in Istambul, occupy the clean tarmac zone at all cost, in order to force the other driver (Hamilton in Singapore, Vettel in Turkey) to cross the dirty area.
Cleaver move? No doubt. Fair move? Well... Ask Helmut Marko,for example.
Had Hamilton let him go, and perhaps Webber would not have finished the curb, due too much entry speed. OTOH, Hamilton was a little optimistic, as in Monza. I suspect he did not remember to check Webber's position again, after passing in on the straight line.
Other than that, the actual crash was very similar to the one between Hamilton and Massa, in Monza, but with Hamilton playing reverse roles, ironically with the same result. Should one blame the car's fragility?

In what way is Webber on the clean part of the track? Hamilton is clearly on the rubbered in part that allows better braking. I'm not sure what you mean.
Glad to see your opinion on Monza.

Right, at curb entrance, but Webber did try to seize it near the apex, forcing Hamilton to finish braking out of the clean area.

I don't see where. He was on the racing line all the time. Never went off the "dark path".