Flexible wings 2011

[raymondu999]

McLaren do? Really? I haven't seen shots of their wing bending too much

[Joie de vivre]

i know others are aware of this problem but they obviously dont understand it or just dont want to understand it, i mean all they are doing is positioning the exhaust in some crazy locations ...

[raymondu999]

good job from RB, just stunning how the front wing is flexing like crazy

i wonder how others still havent figured it out or maybe there are just not trying to understand the concept of it

Definitely what puts them ahead. McLaren are the only other team doing this and look how much better they suddenly are...

I think the others know what is going on, how could they not? But that bending wing thing is blatantly braking the no movable aero regulations, therefore illegal. So I'm guessing the other teams are more tentative in braking the rules.

Going around the FIA test does not make this thing legal. So either the FIA needs to change the rule so that this is made legal, or they need to change the test so no one can use it.

At the moment, this is just going to kill the racing...

It's legal to the letter of the rules. It contravenes the spirit, but not the letter. That's the critical difference. F-duct? Double diffusers? Bad time to start getting selective memory

[ParanoiD]

Check how low close to the Tarmac the front wing is running on


Compare to Button same place same time Quali

[i70q7m7ghw]

good job from RB, just stunning how the front wing is flexing like crazy

i wonder how others still havent figured it out or maybe there are just not trying to understand the concept of it

Definitely what puts them ahead. McLaren are the only other team doing this and look how much better they suddenly are...

I think the others know what is going on, how could they not? But that bending wing thing is blatantly braking the no movable aero regulations, therefore illegal. So I'm guessing the other teams are more tentative in braking the rules.

Going around the FIA test does not make this thing legal. So either the FIA needs to change the rule so that this is made legal, or they need to change the test so no one can use it.

At the moment, this is just going to kill the racing...

It's legal to the letter of the rules. It contravenes the spirit, but not the letter. That's the critical difference. F-duct? Double diffusers? Bad time to start getting selective memory

Actually no it's not legal to the letter of the rules. It passes the test designed to enforce the rules. The letter of the rules state no flexability (within a margin). From TV footage and pictures it's clear the Red Bull wing breaks this rule, but footage and images are not enough to prove it. The FIA need to think of a better way to enforce the rule, I suspect they will introduce more standardised front wing components, in later seasons ofcourse.

[shelly]

Like many, I think that if a team builds a front wing that obeys to rules and yet flexes on track they are showing that they have better engineering skills in designing and building front wings.

It is up to other teams to up their game in that area.

[raymondu999]

Don't the regs only state the maximum spring rate? I wasn't aware there was a minimum clearance. I do apologise if I'm mistaken there. Can anyone quote the exact regs, and can we move this conversation to the flexiwing 2011 thread?

[myurr]

It's legal to the letter of the rules. It contravenes the spirit, but not the letter. That's the critical difference. F-duct? Double diffusers? Bad time to start getting selective memory

Err no it's not. It's utterly illegal according to the letter of the rules, but passes the FIAs designated test that is supposed to catch people contravening the rules. The rules categorically state that first and foremost flexible aerodynamic parts are not allowed and that this rule supersedes the subsequent rules related to the test, allowing the FIA to upgrade or change their test at any time without the teams consent.

So if anything this is just incompetence by the FIA in enforcing their own rules.

Edit: Sorry just say Diesel say pretty much the same thing.

[bot6]

Selective memory is not the problem.

Aerodynamic influence :
With the exception of the driver adjustable bodywork described in Article 3.18 (in addition to minimal parts solely associated with its actuation) and the ducts described in Article 11.4, any specific part of the car influencing its aerodynamic performance :
- must comply with the rules relating to bodywork ;
- must be rigidly secured to the entirely sprung part of the car (rigidly secured means not having any degree of freedom) ;
- must remain immobile in relation to the sprung part of the car.
Any device or construction that is designed to bridge the gap between the sprung part of the car and the ground is prohibited under all circumstances.
No part having an aerodynamic influence and no part of the bodywork, with the exception of the skid block in 3.13 above, may under any circumstances be located below the reference plane.
(...)

In order to ensure that the requirements of Article 3.15 are respected, the FIA reserves the right to introduce further load/deflection tests on any part of the bodywork which appears to be (or is suspected of), moving whilst the car is in motion.

So it is illegal since the wing bends under the reference plane and is designed to be as close as possible to the ground.

And the FIA can do something about it with 3.17.8.

There is a difference between finding a loophole in the regulations, and braking the rules without getting caught.

[murtoidf1]

Check how low close to the Tarmac the front wing is running on

can you get a working link to the first pic. im interested!

[bot6]

Err no it's not. It's utterly illegal according to the letter of the rules, but passes the FIAs designated test that is supposed to catch people contravening the rules. The rules categorically state that first and foremost flexible aerodynamic parts are not allowed and that this rule supersedes the subsequent rules related to the test, allowing the FIA to upgrade or change their test at any time without the teams consent.

So if anything this is just incompetence by the FIA in enforcing their own rules.

Edit: Sorry just say Diesel say pretty much the same thing.

That was true until last year I believe, but it's not in the regs this year as the FIA probably decided the "no flexing at any time" rule was impossible to enforce. So they replaced it with a long list of tests and restrictions.

The spirit of the rules is indeed what you describe, but that spirit is not stated in the regs anymore (which I do find stupid, but I'm not an FIA lawyer...)

EDIT: Guys, I just want to make it clear that this is not an anti Red Bull crusade. I have nothing against Red Bull as a team. I just want everybody to race under the same rules so that we can have some close and exciting racing.

[raymondu999]

No material is infinitely rigid though. It can't be the case that the regs say no flexing is allowed. A limited amount of flexing I can believe, but no flexing would just mean the FWs would snap off easily. Can we move this conversation over to the flexi wing thread?

[bot6]

We could move those posts, but the rule contravention is specific to RBR I think as the McLaren wing does not seem to bend below the reference plane.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Err no it's not. It's utterly illegal according to the letter of the rules, but passes the FIAs designated test that is supposed to catch people contravening the rules. The rules categorically state that first and foremost flexible aerodynamic parts are not allowed and that this rule supersedes the subsequent rules related to the test, allowing the FIA to upgrade or change their test at any time without the teams consent.

So if anything this is just incompetence by the FIA in enforcing their own rules.

Edit: Sorry just say Diesel say pretty much the same thing.

That was true until last year I believe, but it's not in the regs this year as the FIA probably decided the "no flexing at any time" rule was impossible to enforce. So they replaced it with a long list of tests and restrictions.

The spirit of the rules is indeed what you describe, but that spirit is not stated in the regs anymore (which I do find stupid, but I'm not an FIA lawyer...)

EDIT: Guys, I just want to make it clear that this is not an anti Red Bull crusade. I have nothing against Red Bull as a team. I just want everybody to race under the same rules so that we can have some close and exciting racing.

Can you quote a source for this rule change please. I was not aware if any changes to the rules regarding flexible bodywork.

[Joie de vivre]

can you get a working link to the first pic. im interested!

It would be great if someone made gif.