Mercedes GP W02

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
segedunum
segedunum
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Joined: 03 Apr 2007, 13:49

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Well, we were right weren't we? They're about where they were last season, if not worse, except that other teams have clearly moved ahead of them. Expect to feel your stomach fall out from underneath you as you see that car go through anything remotely resembling a fast corner.

Melbourne is a circuit that has a tendency to throw up unusual results in the past, but if anything, you'd expect a car's performance at other places to be masked there. There are no real high speed corners to speak of and if you're deficient you can expect to be further behind elsewhere.

To be honest though, as I'd predicted, we'll be getting predictions of how well Merc will do when they get to Europe and then we'll be getting the 'concentrating on next year' stuff again in short order.

Bob Bell has a nightmare on his hands there. The stuff he's going to recommend probably won't go down too well with Mercedes because it's going to cost money, and lots of it.

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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segedunum wrote:Bob Bell has a nightmare on his hands there. The stuff he's going to recommend probably won't go down too well with Mercedes because it's going to cost money, and lots of it.
In all honesty seg, I'm not so sure if we should xpect Bob Bell to spend so much time on this dog, perhaps he's hired to design the car for next year, you know the third year, when Mercedes are supposed to take the WDC/WCC?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Joined: 29 Jan 2010, 11:51
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Why do you think Bob Bell was brought in?

Im no insider, But Ross Brawn being tied to his desk and then away at race GP meets is a factor when considering what goes on back at base.
Bob Bell will alleviate some of these pressures and will also add new ideas to the team.

I would also refrain from calling the W02 a "dog". We didnt see the team scratching their heads, they knew they had problems with KERS and other system integrations at Melbourne. This cost them set up time, as it did with Ferrari at a track notorious for not being an indicator of car performance.
Dren also mentioned Rosberg was capable of matching Buttons times during the race, hardly bad now is it?

Its always easy to jump and say they will fail. Especially in light of the Red Bull dominance we have witnessed these last 16 months.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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I think they've just made a car with an overly small sweet spot of setup, and they haven't been able to find that yet.
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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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raymondu999 wrote:I think they've just made a car with an overly small sweet spot of setup, and they haven't been able to find that yet.
I agree with this, and I thing the short wheelbase has somthing to do with this set up problem.
More could have been done.
David Purley

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raymondu999
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Joined: 04 Feb 2010, 07:31

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Hasn't this always been a problem for a while? I seem to remember that sometimes only Barichello (who we know is very good on finding setups) can find the sweet spot
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dren
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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There has just been one race so far and all there is talk of is gloom and doom. Give the car 4 races to make a good call on if the W02 is a dog or not.

Last year the team performed to what it had expected with the W01. This year the team was baffled why they couldn't extract the expected performance. There is performance in the W02. As I said earlier, I expect Mercedes to be right there with Mclaren, Ferrari and Renault. We will see how close those four teams are in Malaysia.
Honda!

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Lindz
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Joined: 09 Feb 2011, 11:01

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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When we said this car was off the pace in testing, it was always "Wait til the first race to see it's true pace."

When it went fastest at the end of the Barcelona tests, it was "See, they've done it!"

Now that they haven't gotten it right (again), it's "Wait ~4 races before you see it's true pace."


Well, yeah... let's wait til the end of the season and we can look back and be very conclusive of what every car's pace was. But that's part of this site... trying to predict who and what is going good or going wrong. No?

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JohnsonsEvilTwin
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Fancy a stick to beat the car into further submission?
Or will an crusher be more apt?

Look at the reasons why, then deduct your own opinion rather than stampede those that are rightly defending the cars showing.
It proved to be on Buttons pace in the race...is that bad?
More could have been done.
David Purley

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Lindz
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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No, it wasn't 'bad', but it's clearly off from where Mercedes were expecting. Plus, Merc was the first of the 'big teams' to abandon their 2010 car so I think there is some added expectation.

I still stand by my thought that they went about 2011 in the wrong way. It seemed much too timid (both development and initial design of the car) and the details are shoddy. A bit too Brackley HondaF1-like...

andrew
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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The KERS units on both cars were faulty. Then Schumachers car was damaged by a wayward Torro Rosso. Then Rosberg was taken out by Barrichello falling asleep at the wheel.

On the plus side, on the few laps when everything worked perfectly the Mercs were as fast as the McLarens.

Raptor22
Raptor22
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009, 22:48

Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Andrew,

talking sense in a Mercedes thread is not allowed and will be severely punished by the Engineering god Segpensive....(thats a laxative brand on sale at my local pharmacy LOL)

xpensive
xpensive
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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Lindz wrote:When we said this car was off the pace in testing, it was always "Wait til the first race to see it's true pace."

When it went fastest at the end of the Barcelona tests, it was "See, they've done it!"

Now that they haven't gotten it right (again), it's "Wait ~4 races before you see it's true pace."

Well, yeah... let's wait til the end of the season and we can look back and be very conclusive of what every car's pace was. But that's part of this site... trying to predict who and what is going good or going wrong. No?
Xcellent post Lindz, my sentiments precisely.

But anyway, as I tried to xplain earlier, this is stil the old BAR-team, littered with CART-engineers, which is so obvious by the lack of attention to detail, they have to uproot all that and rebuild it to Mercedes-Benz standard to make it work.

As for the KERS xcuse, RedBull don't even use it, stll with an engine at lest 20 Hp down on the Mercedes unit.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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ringo
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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I think the top 8 cars can all visit the podium at any race this year. All because of the 2011 regulations.
The cars are all closely related refinements wise and the only thing that can stop a team from being competitive on one weekend is poor preparation and setup; all upgrades being equal.

The mercedes is far from a dog of a car. The only dog on the track is the MVR. Even the lotus and HRT have some promise. :lol:

All it wants is a better work ethic and structure from the team regarding suspension setups and preparation in practice and the car can challenge for any place behind a redbull.

The redbull exhaust is also a cheap idea to copy as well, to see where their current exhaust stands performance wise.

Looking at the car, it has no real excuse to be a dog. The team and their BAR habits is probably the problem.
For Sure!!

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Ferraripilot
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Joined: 28 Jan 2011, 16:36
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Re: Mercedes GP W02

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After 1 race? Really? No need to stampeed any car just yet.

And regarding the BAR comments, I thought 99% of the BAR people were long gone.