Mercedes GP W02

[impaero]

What a dog of an f1 car. Knew some of the Mercedes aero guys when they were at school and they got good grades, but knew jack about racing or making a car faster.

I'll be very surprised if the car can be made much better unless they have some major changes and updates (which seems to be a slogan of the team now).

Hope they do better in the race

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

My observations thus far have yielded a few things regards the W02.

Its too oversteery, and isnt good under breaking or high speed directional change. These are fundamentals if you want to get podiums, let alone wins.
But, most telling of all is the one team who have tested a flexible wing/nose are now suddenly the second quickest team after being nowhere in testing, McLaren.

In view of what the team have done so far, the W02 is probably on par with the W01. But I think the car has potential to be better should these guys manage to get a grip with their "systems".

Mercedes now have no choice but to gamble on this flexing wing, because 2 seconds down on Red Bull is just shocking.

[ringo]

Everyone relax, it's only Malaysia. We have to wait until Monza until we see the true pace of the W02, then you can start saying it's a mistake.

Right, JET, et al?

Tell you what Lindz, you do better? Im bitterly dissapointed with this car, and in fact with the overall state of Mercedes GP. Marcush and Xpensive have already mentioned the lack of detailing on this car, and previously the W01. The team needs a shakeup, that is evident. But I think its happening as we speak, Bob Bell will have knives and daggers out at the factory for anything unsatisfactory. They have the best engine and KERS and still Schumacher is outdone by a Sauber.
The car seems now to be a mish mash of reality and fantasy, things arent doing what they should...heard that before.

If he doesnt, the Mercedes really are up ***t creek without the preverbial paddle. This is my main concern. The car hasnt demonstrated its speed at a track that was supposedly suited to its core strengths.
Now we get the usual acronymic BS with KERS and DRS. The more tech the more the teams got an excuse. As a silberpfeile fan, this is pathetic. Neubauer would be turning in his grave at the sight of these guys.

Paint the cars black tommorow and call it a "concept by Mercedes-Benz", because every mile these cars do in silver is a disgrace to the heritage of the 3 pointed star. W02? Thats a joke in my view. More like BGP003 with fancy paint work.
2012 and Mercedes simulators and tech cannot come soon enough for these guys.
And if I were Brawn I would also look at getting James Key over, look at what Sauber are doing with there resources......

Im livid, but I wont draw out the heavy weaponry until I see Mercedes actuall influence on the team.

Whoa whoaa !!

Don't be so hard on them.
The car wasn't well put together to begin with. Some of us saw right through it.
It's honda, you can't expect an overnight improvement.
The pace in Barcelona was fleeting, something they will never have in a different environment. The car is just too inconsistent, same like the W01.

Renault were catching them from 2010, i told you so , and in fact were better than them, and it's now that we see that Renault has completely overtaking this sad team.

All that's left for them to do now is to try the redbull exhuast and then put the drs activator in the middle like the others to have a reliable system.
At least the redbull exhuast may create a little space for KERS cooling.

I feel it for Rosberg more than anyone else. The guy should turn away from merc, leave it for hulkenbery, and be in a ferrari next year.

[tok-tokkie]

I have just been Googling to see who does the design of the car. Bob Bell seems to have joined in Feb 2011. Work on the car started in July so it must have been pretty well finalised by then.
Bell left Renault in October 2010. They have since then designed & built a Mercedes beater.
Who was Brawn's technical man before Bell? What is his pedigree?

[i70q7m7ghw]

Interesting how the 5th fastest car in Qualifying is described as a 'dog', 'disgrace' etc. etc.

On that scale where does the Williams sit?

[marcush.]

well..at this time they cannot extract the most out of the car because of reliability issues...something they had already last year .The cars seem to be prepared not well enough and this reflects badly on the engineering design side.
You need a car which is almost foolproof in assembly not a nightmare impossible even for the best mechanics to prepare perfectly.
Again it really looks like the thing has fundamental detail design flaws starting from mechanical side across software and electronics...Kers switching off because of sensor errors.... ..
Can Mercedes as a company get on top of this? I don´t know whhat your perception of a OEM is.you might be able to get some board level meeting to discuss what to do and how much time or money to spend on this but WHO in Mercedes should adress and solve this sort of problems? there is no John Barnard Rory Byrne or Gordon Murray in Mercedes waiting for the chance to show the world how a contemporary F1 machine should look like...When Mercedes last time dared to step into this direction they had Leo Ress but still hired Dr.Harvey Postlethwaite and Mike Gascoyne to layout the F1 design...AMG has one Herr Ungar who is responsible for the DTM cars and was responsible for the GTs ..also the infamous one..I don´t see
the expertise inside.sorry.no ways.

And Bob Bell? he faced the axe in Renault being too conservative,right? It´s a tough time ....Peter Sauber has showbn really impressive gut feeling with hiring drivers and now with James Key he seems to have found another Jewel .But where to find the new Newey or Byrne ...Ross will be desperate these days

[PNSD]

AMuS report that the DRS did not operate correctly for MS during Q2...

I dont understand why they are having issues with this device. Firstly, its simple actuation. This type of concept has been around for ever. Its reliable, and ever since aircraft have required powered actuation, hydraulic actuation has been a very robust system.

HRT have barely run yet their DRS works fine first time out. Why are Mercedes having such issues? They had issues at Australia, and now here with MS.

It's a simple device, but has cost them in results.

As a fan of the team for a long time it disappoints me that such silly errors are costing them. If it were an fundamental aero-problem I could understand, but to not get the DRS operating correctly is almost embarrassing imo.

[andrew]

The device may be simple but the guy with the spanner may be a tool.

[marcush.]

design flaws, lack of expertise ,dedication and passion .Lack of applying the rules for sucess.If you struggle to produce a moving flap how can you master a real complex system? Is it wise to let a young guy on an internship design such a device wich is a performance differentiator? Maybe it is just a lack of guidance and application .Exp was talking about company culture.A Boss maybe invisile but suddenly is approaching you and asking very uncomfortable questions or you might not ever see him and your work is not really guided by senior personel when help or advise is needed...looks like a ship without a proper captain to me at least one with eyes and ears that have seen much better days ...maybe worn out by things nothing to do with the job in hand.

Race mechanics usually are really,really good .I bet it ´s not the spanner man who is the root cause but a issue in the chain .
It´s like Sauber getting kiked out because of a simple legality issue .It´s impossible.You need to constantly check your proceedures.And if you don´t have the man power it´s even more important to assign and distribute the jobs to be done.No excuses.

[Morteza]

If you struggle to produce a moving flap how can you master a real complex system?

+1
This Mercedes team is a complete disappointment. Pure BAR/Honda I have to say. They cannot fix such an issue with their DRS let alone build a reliable car challenging for podiums. There is sth really wrong with this team. They lack many many things I believe. It seems they themselves have got no idea what they lack! Renault caught them half way through 2010, and now there is Sauber.

[marcush.]

Ah ..not quite..
The Brackley guys know how to build a car that gets to the finish.they rarely have tech related dnfs.
Last year :unexplainable loss of rear wheel by MS and a rear suspension issue for Rosberg ...so the little issues rarely kick them out of the race.
The issues just reduce performance methinks.uneven brakes,f-duct switching on and off ,unexplainable performance lack in certain conditions,kers trouble ,DRS trouble,loss of downforce due to warping underfloors,loss of third spring,overheating of engine due to cooling misconception....

[ringo]

design flaws, lack of expertise ,dedication and passion .Lack of applying the rules for sucess.If you struggle to produce a moving flap how can you master a real complex system? Is it wise to let a young guy on an internship design such a device wich is a performance differentiator? Maybe it is just a lack of guidance and application .Exp was talking about company culture.A Boss maybe invisile but suddenly is approaching you and asking very uncomfortable questions or you might not ever see him and your work is not really guided by senior personel when help or advise is needed...looks like a ship without a proper captain to me at least one with eyes and ears that have seen much better days ...maybe worn out by things nothing to do with the job in hand.

Race mechanics usually are really,really good .I bet it ´s not the spanner man who is the root cause but a issue in the chain .
It´s like Sauber getting kiked out because of a simple legality issue .It´s impossible.You need to constantly check your proceedures.And if you don´t have the man power it´s even more important to assign and distribute the jobs to be done.No excuses.

that actuator should be in the middle like the other teams for simplicity. Merc are going with the fancy shmancy actuator in the end plates and they can't manage it.

[andrew]

I think it may be the elctrics which could be causing the problems.

Clearly the movable wing element works on Rosberg's car and worked in pre-season testing so the eing mechanism is probably ok.

Reading Schumacher's comments, the element is not fully retracting immediately so I think it is an electrical fault that they havn't sussed out yet.

[Dragonfly]

Could it be aerodynamics related? I.e. the flow (or abnormal flow) preventing it from closing and the actuator lacking enough pulling force?

[feynman]

Could it be aerodynamics related?

That's what I presumed too ... when you hear drivers talking about the wing not working, it's nothing to do with an actuator or a solenoid, but probably more about the airflow not re-attaching quickly enough when the flap shuts, so you go sailing into the braking zone with a stalled rear wing.