Turkish GP 2011 - Istanbul

[HampusA]

I see, thanks

[archiebald]

Depending on how you count them there were 73~82 pit stops in this grand prix.

Maybe I'm too thick or it's just too early in the morning, but I always thought there was only one way to count pit stops, ie the traditional way of counting, same as with all things?

I was referring to pit stops due to tyre wear.

Schumacher pitted once for a new nose, Kobayashi had to pit due to a puncture, there were obviously many we did not see. I have seen 73 and 82 reported in race articles. I therefore assume that 73 were due to tyre wear with 82 including all other reasons.

[archiebald]

I've posted elsewhere on this.

The race was bad for two reasons IMO.

1. DRS zone was too long making it too easy to pass. I agree with DRS in principle - it worked brilliantly in China with only about half the overtaking attempts actually panning out. But in Turkey, the overtake was guaranteed for the overtaker and the overtakee had virtually zero possibility for any defensive driving.

2. Pirelli need to make real tyres. There is very little driving skill involved in overtaking someone who's tyres are dead after 10~15 laps. Depending on how you count them there were 73~82 pit stops in this grand prix, the most since Donington 1993 and that was under changeable wet/dry conditions.

The best racing in the event was Lewis vs Jenson (mostly outside the DRS zone) and on similar aged tyres.

Bridgestone + KERS + Good DRS setup is all we need. Pirelli = fail

As for the Massa vs Lewis pit release, that was in no way the same as Lewis vs Vettel from China 2010.

China 2010 - both cars released together, Lewis got wheelspin and lost ground, Vettel deliberately tried to push him into the garages.

Turkey 2011 - Lewis was almost level with the Ferrari pit when Massa was released, Lewis reacted when he thought Massa was going to hit him, but otherwise ran straight.
Massa staying alongside Lewis was not the point, initial release by the team was the problem IMO.

I think McLaren failed to have the same pace as the Bulls and Alonso? It wasn't Pirelli's and DRS fault that McLaren didn't have a good car. I feel tha McLaren isn't as good as you think. Same with Ferrari

Edit: wrote at the wrong place

Edit: spelling

I think you need to edit that again - third time lucky maybe?. Where did I mention the quality of ANY of the cars or their race pace?

[archiebald]

Huh? In now way does Archie put in excuses for McLaren. McLaren clearly underperformed in Turkey; and I don't think anyone can refute that. Sure it was due to several mistakes; but that's all part and parcel of formula one. A large part of it is also making sure you don't make mistakes.

I used to be a McL fan myself (though not really nowadays) and I can't refute that the battle that lasted 5 or 6 corners between the McLarens were exciting stuff.

He's not blaming Pirellis for McLaren's goofs in Turkey; he's blaming Pirelli for making a fresh-tyred car to be able to too easily overtake a worn-tyred car; and blaming the long DRS zone for making overtaking too easy.

Yes - thank you, that is precisely what I meant.

[raymondu999]

Heh. I was worried that it might not have been

[dribbler]

I think the stewards should only penalize teams for un safe releases if the cars in question actually collide. I say this because if the drivers are spacially aware and are able to use the judgement correctly (as Felipe and Lewis both did, in my opinion) there is no need for punishment.

Obviously if cars are released and cause an unavoidable impact, penalties should be dished out.

This might be a dangerous precedent to set, but no driver wants to clash intentionally. In this particular situation there was margin and no reason for concern, in my view.

[Mysticf1]

At the risk of further baiting off-topic discussion; if Vettel can drive within himself, then still qualify regularly 5-8 tenths ahead of Mark Webber; then that seems rather alarming

This is from the RB7 thread, my reply probably belongs in here.

I too find this alarming, i can accept Vettel has some raw speed over Mark but this is definitely not what i expected this year. Not only his outright qual speed but his use of the tires. I was watching live timing during the race and you could definitely see Webber and Alonso's times tumble as the tires went off, but Vettel was able to pump in a few purple sectors at the end of his stint to defend against the undercut. Vettel just seems at one with the tires and car, its more than a simple confidence boost from being WDC.

As a fanboi i really hope Webber can find some answers, but i'm not holding my breath.

[raymondu999]

Actually I was worried when, after the 2nd round of pitstops for Alonso and Webber, Vettel stayed out. For 3 or 4 laps more. I (being the Vettel follower that I am) thought, "Oh no!! They've ruined it!! The undercut's going to get him!!" But then, watching live timing, Vettel's times were faster than the two of them. It's really quite puzzling, the whole thing

[HampusA]

Same with Hamilton´s times at the end of his last two stints. He actually got faster for every lap which tells me he really can take care of his tires and saved it for the latter part of the stint.

Love when they basically told him 5-6 times to save the tires

[Giblet]

Marks results

5th Australia
4th Malaysia
3rd China
2nd Turkey.

The season is very early, and Mark is on a charge.

[HampusA]

Expecting him to win the next race then considering the above and the fact that he took pole and won last year at Spain,

And was 0.9 seconds faster then the closest rival not considering Vettel.

[alelanza]

And then be #0 in Monaco? i guess that means go into the ocean or similar, which considering Webber's track record is not unthinkable

[djos]

Mark should do well at Monaco again too considering he's won there in both F3000 and F1 and came damned close to winning it with Williams a few years back before his car caught fire.

[HampusA]

And then be #0 in Monaco? i guess that means go into the ocean or similar, which considering Webber's track record is not unthinkable

Well he jumped in the pool after the race so..

Coming 0 you have to be so quick that you lap yourself or something

[dribbler]

Expecting him to win the next race then considering the above and the fact that he took pole and won last year at Spain,

And was 0.9 seconds faster then the closest rival not considering Vettel.

I'll eat my 1:18 FW18 replica if that happens. Trends and history are no guarantee of the future. Vettel is in a different operating zone to Webber right now.