Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

For ease of use, there is one thread per grand prix where you can discuss everything during that specific GP weekend. You can find these threads here.
munudeges
munudeges
-14
Joined: 10 Jun 2011, 17:08

Re: Mercedes GP W02

Post

marcush. wrote:Could it be they have compromised their mechanical setup to be able to carry more rake at higher speeds?(eg morte spring rate rear)...this would help their high speed downforce but surely compromise grip /traction at lower speeds..
That's certainly a fair possibility, but I would expect their traction then to be universally bad under all circumstances. When the tyres are reasonably fresh that doesn't quite seem to happen. What's really striking to me is how fast they seem to be initially in qualifying and on fresh tyres but how in sometimes less than ten laps their performance is awful versus other teams at the same point. They seem to lose all traction when the tyres go and that's a big clue they're shortening their life severely. I was willing to tip my hat to them after China, but something just didn't ring true as usual.

What I suspect they've done is played about with the mechanical set up of the car to gain more mechanical grip (stiffening what they can and various other tricks) at the expense of short term gain in terms of tyre longevity in order to make up for their terrible lack of aerodynamic grip. The behaviour of the car over bumps, under braking and its performance in the wet would seem to support something like that.

Thanks to the inimitable JET's pictures we can confirm that Mercedes were running *a lot* more wing than just about any other team, so you can only draw the conclusion that their aerodynamic grip is woefully lacking. It also only adds fuel to the fire as to how they're achieving their straight line speeds in qualifying and early on compared to other Mercedes powered teams because they're not turning a disadvantage into an advantage simply with a flappy rear wing.

User avatar
Shrieker
13
Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

Even if Button couldn't see LH in the mirror, he definitely knew he was coming and thought it would be a good idea to bully him to back off.

But he f***ed up big time.
Last edited by Shrieker on 13 Jun 2011, 02:01, edited 1 time in total.
Education is that which allows a nation free, independent, reputable life, and function as a high society; or it condemns it to captivity and poverty.
-Atatürk

User avatar
SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

Also, why starting under the safety car all the time now? Drivers don't get paid millions of £'s to be worried about rain. For that money, I would want them to race the balls of the car even if it was snowing. I'm getting tired of "It's too wet", "It's undriveable", "we shouldn't be racing" or "It's super slippy, we need more laps behind the SC".
Almost every time it cuts to Hamilton's radio he is saying "why aren't we racing? or "its wet, but it's ok".

I would just like to reiterate one point that I just made:
MILLIONS of £'s.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
SiLo
138
Joined: 25 Jul 2010, 19:09

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

ringo wrote:
beelsebob wrote:Image
Button didn't always take the line all the way to the left of the grid boxes, but you can see it clearly is a regularly used line – it's bone dry. I see no reason why JB wouldn't have thought he could use it then.
Ah so you see now. Why would he go into the wet? Maybe becuase hamilton is there?
If he didn't see him he would have no reason to take a slower line.

There is the line, that nice curve that runs through the grid slots clearly enough room for 3 cars there.
The narrowest part is where button is now and 2 and a half cars can go there.

Now take a load of this:

Image

Image

Image
Watch it again and you will notice that Button was only pointing that way because he had just touched Hamilton and the car kicked sideways.
Felipe Baby!

User avatar
Poleman
1
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

After all this ying-yang i am reading about LH and JB and who is at fault and who is not...It was a deemed as racing incident.Its the end of the race and Button won.

Formula one is considered as a team sport right?I am a McLaren fan myself so i am happy that my favourite team actually won the Grand Prix. Its understandable that one-(myself included), have one driver of his liking-LH for most of McLaren fans (myself included as well),but for the sport sake cant we be happy that our favourite teams won or were second/third e.t.c?It was quite a nice race and some of us are happy of the results some not.

In the end its the same as watching your favourite football team scoring against a rival team for the championship.Does it really matter which one of the 2 strikers sends the ball to the net?...In F1 is slightly different as the drivers are awarded points and fighting for a seperate champinship between them,yet F1 is still a team sport.

So all Hamilton supporters move on and look for the next race and enjoy the victorious weekend for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team.

Cheers!

User avatar
ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

That's right before contact.
It means he's less than car width even if you don't agree. As contact can only be made in that situation, at this time Hamiton is on the grass.

The racing line is not that close to the wall.
No one runs to the wall ever.
Button should not be there, especially against your teammate.
For Sure!!

User avatar
ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

Poleman wrote:After all this ying-yang i am reading about LH and JB and who is at fault and who is not...It was a deemed as racing incident.Its the end of the race and Button won.

Formula one is considered as a team sport right?I am a McLaren fan myself so i am happy that my favourite team actually won the Grand Prix. Its understandable that one-(myself included), have one driver of his liking-LH for most of McLaren fans (myself included as well),but for the sport sake cant we be happy that our favourite teams won or were second/third e.t.c?It was quite a nice race and some of us are happy of the results some not.

In the end its the same as watching your favourite football team scoring against a rival team for the championship.Does it really matter which one of the 2 strikers sends the ball to the net?...In F1 is slightly different as the drivers are awarded points and fighting for a seperate champinship between them,yet F1 is still a team sport.

So all Hamilton supporters move on and look for the next race and enjoy the victorious weekend for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team.

Cheers!
The team lost more today. A 1-2 beats a 1-0 everytime.
For Sure!!

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

ringo wrote:That's right before contact.
It means he's less than car width even if you don't agree. As contact can only be made in that situation, at this time Hamiton is on the grass.

The racing line is not that close to the wall.
No one runs to the wall ever.
Button should not be there, especially against your teammate.
It's not pre-contact, it's post – the left rear wheel clip pushed button's tail right, he corrected it back onto the racing line. Note from your own pictures that Button is in the same line as the grid boxes.

User avatar
Poleman
1
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

ringo wrote:
The team lost more today. A 1-2 beats a 1-0 everytime.
I dont believe that u were sure about a McLaren 1-2 today right?So many happened in this race and i believe that Vettel had every right to win this today but that is F1.So a goal for McLaren today is still a fine result to me even if that win didnt come from my favourite driver.(Yes suprprisingly im a Hamilton fan too).
Last edited by Poleman on 13 Jun 2011, 02:13, edited 2 times in total.

beelsebob
beelsebob
85
Joined: 23 Mar 2011, 15:49
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

Poleman wrote:After all this ying-yang i am reading about LH and JB and who is at fault and who is not...It was a deemed as racing incident.Its the end of the race and Button won.

Formula one is considered as a team sport right?I am a McLaren fan myself so i am happy that my favourite team actually won the Grand Prix. Its understandable that one-(myself included), have one driver of his liking-LH for most of McLaren fans (myself included as well),but for the sport sake cant we be happy that our favourite teams won or were second/third e.t.c?It was quite a nice race and some of us are happy of the results some not.

In the end its the same as watching your favourite football team scoring against a rival team for the championship.Does it really matter which one of the 2 strikers sends the ball to the net?...In F1 is slightly different as the drivers are awarded points and fighting for a seperate champinship between them,yet F1 is still a team sport.

So all Hamilton supporters move on and look for the next race and enjoy the victorious weekend for Vodafone McLaren Mercedes Team.

Cheers!
+1 that we should just get on and be happy about JB's great win.

Re it being a team sport. I'd say it's more like a rugby game where you have to pull your star player 10 minutes in, and then lose 25 - 33.

User avatar
horse
6
Joined: 23 Oct 2009, 17:53
Location: Bilbao, ES

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

ringo wrote:That's right before contact.
Come on, be objective Ringo. Are you really trying to argue that Button is about to drive himself off the track?

Image

They have definitely made contact by this point. Anyway it's over, no blame attributed...
horse wrote:Button keeps Canadian GP win
Button also escaped any sanctions for his clash with team-mate Lewis Hamilton.
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

User avatar
Poleman
1
Joined: 02 Feb 2010, 19:25

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

To put this thing back to its grave here it comes from Lewis:
Lewis Hamilton wrote:After I fell back behind Jenson, he outbraked himself into the final chicane and got a poor exit, so I was able to get a good run on him. It felt to me like I was halfway alongside him down the pits straight - but, as he probably hadn’t spotted me, he continued moving across on the racing line.There was no room for me, so I hit the wall. Of course, I don’t think it was intentional: I know Jenson well enough and I know he wouldn’t do that. He’s a good guy. So, now, I’ll just focus on the next race and the rest of the season.

sknguy
sknguy
3
Joined: 14 Dec 2004, 21:02

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

SiLo wrote:After watching the move a couple of times, you can see Button clearly look in his mirror just as Lewis is tucked right in behind him, so at the time he wouldn't of seen him. Then he moves across to take the racing line, probably believing that Hamilton would go around the outside, but as he makes his move, Hamilton also makes his, and the two come together with Lewis being unlucky that scraping the wall actually ripped the wheel off.

Racing incident.

Why the Stewards want to penalise every single overtake and and collision is beyond me now, it's starting to get annoying. Let the guys race, and only penalise people when it is clear they have gained an advantage by PURPOSEFULLY (or accidentally, but taking into account how brash the move was) causing a collision. SORTED.
Here's my take. I think Button was aware that he came out of the chicane slowly. And knowing that, when I first saw the incident and seen Button check his rearview, I actually thought Button was checking to see whether Hamilton was going to swing out to take the line nearest the pit lane. Button probably didn't see this... and probably couldn't see much of anything, so he decided to take that line instead and offer him his right instead of his left. But, I think Hamilton had taken a little too long commiting to his line though. He was probably a little too far back to commit any sooner though (which is what I'd thought). But that was my impression of it. Also, neither do I think Button deserved a drive through for that.

Ya know... for rain conditions, they should think about putting some non-flashing clearance lights atop the front wing end plates. Well... maybe they could flash so as a driver could signal he wants to pass. :wtf:

User avatar
ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

horse wrote:
ringo wrote:That's right before contact.
Come on, be objective Ringo. Are you really trying to argue that Button is about to drive himself off the track?
He is not on the racing line and he was looking to either block or scare, that's my only argument. Whether causing a crash was not his intention is debatable.

We pointed out where the line is. And we pointed out that Jenson was moving off it for some reason or the other.
More than likely to prevent a second overtake from LH.

The race is over, button won as we know, but no way was that a normal occurrence or racing incident.
It took the stewards over 5 hours to come to a conclusion, and Button's win, may have determined the outcome more than the incident it self.

I hope if we see something similar in the future, it's just passed off as a "driver not seeing".

@ poleman, Lewis is playing the fool to catch the wise.
In his heart he's keeping an eye out for Jenson. This all to guarantee the Button win. He rathers that than a penalty and a Vettel win.
Last edited by ringo on 13 Jun 2011, 02:30, edited 1 time in total.
For Sure!!

User avatar
PlatinumZealot
559
Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

Post

Poleman wrote:To put this thing back to its grave here it comes from Lewis:
Lewis Hamilton wrote:After I fell back behind Jenson, he outbraked himself into the final chicane and got a poor exit, so I was able to get a good run on him. It felt to me like I was halfway alongside him down the pits straight - but, as he probably hadn’t spotted me, he continued moving across on the racing line.There was no room for me, so I hit the wall. Of course, I don’t think it was intentional: I know Jenson well enough and I know he wouldn’t do that. He’s a good guy. So, now, I’ll just focus on the next race and the rest of the season.
Four letters... P R B S

He might seem all chummy in from the cameras, but you are Gonna see Hamilton more aggressive with Jenson from now on.
🖐️✌️☝️👀👌✍️🐎🏆🙏

Racing Green in 2028