Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

[Shrieker]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpPnhzk665o[/youtube]

I think this is very relevant, thank you for posting it.

The only major difference between this overtake and the incident yesterday between LH and JB is rain (poor visibility+slightly different racing line) and we've (or at least I've) decided to give JB the benefit of doubt. I definitely wouldn't blame any driver for trying to get alongside in a straight.

[ringo]

Hamilton should consider himself lucky to have fans as devoted as Ringo and Myurr.

Lucky or scared?

Sheez, even he himself admitted it was an error of judgement. It happens. Does not mean he is not great.

But that's not good enough Zeph. It is a question of pride on here. Ultimately, they will arrive at the same conclusion as Hamilton after a bit more hyperbole.

We all like to think the guy we support is infallible however there is no harm in admitting they made a mistake, after all they are merely a human (shock horror!!).

There was no mistake. I posted the stewards report. The move was legitimate. Had he stayed behind Button it would have been another Heidfeld Kobayashi accident. Going for a pass was the right thing to do.
going to the right side was greater risk, as there is more water there and then entry into Turn one would have been a disaster. Going to the left naturally is the best option.
Read the stewards report. Button "did not see him". If he did see him; which i think he did, it would be a penalty as according to the sporting regulations.

You cannot run another car off the track under any circumstances. The rules are clear. Why are we still arguing this?
Read the report.

[timd]

Hamilton's fans will win this argument simply because they will keep at it until everybody else has had enough.

Im there already

Or Hamilton's bashers will 'win' by making snide comments and failing to engage in proper discussion...

Are all comments which dont agree with yours snide? Im not a hamilton basher by the way. Just i have a view about this incident and the last couple races.

I have quite often fallen on his side in the past with a lot of dodgy Stewards decisions in 2007-2008. I just have an opinion

[HampusA]

Imagine the day when we see Hamilton rage out and slap someone in the face.

"Obviously the guy just stood in the way when Hamilton was waving his arms, anyone could see that! *shows video of somebody waving their arms as proof*"

[beelsebob]

1) The Stewards said it was a legit overtake and that button just didn't see him there.
2) Hamilton thought it was legit and that button just didn't see him there.
3) Post race, Button thought it was legit and that he just didn't see ham there.
4) Past overtakes have been made in exactly this way in this place.

Why are we even arguing this?

[zeph]

Imagine the day when we see Hamilton rage out and slap someone in the face.

"Obviously the other just stood in the way when Hamilton was waving his arms, anyone could see that! *shows video of somebody waving their arms as proof*"

LOL

[ringo]

By your logic, no one should ever overtake in F1, because if you get along side, the other driver can immediately "make the gap smaller" as long as he hasn't moved once already..

I don't follow that at all. What you just wrote is basically how the driver ahead defends their position.

No – the way you defend a position is by moving before hand – you don't let them along side, or you position yourself to get a better run through the corner. You don't simply move over on them once they're beside you.

It is all about planning the move rather than just going for it and hoping for the best. This is what we saw in the fight between Webber and Schumacher.

No – we saw Webber past Schumacher before the braking zone even started. No planning, just push button, drive past.

Bingo, this completely.

Not that some of his super-fans he has on here will ever agree that the sun doesnt shine out of his arse.

To me he's been making rookie mistakes.

Blasphemy!!!

It seems we've got to the root of the discussion though. It's not Hamilton fans vs non Hamilton fans.

It's people who think it's valid to put your car along side another one and expect them to respect that you're there already vs people who think it's valid to close the door once someone's already beside you.

Thank you sir.
It's never right to push another car into the wall. I don't care if it's Hamilton or Massa "my favourite driver" .
There is no such thing as a diminishing gap. If a car is in it. The the car is a gap stop and the other should stop closing.
Plain and simple respect for the safety of others.

This will happen again, and it wont be Hamilton. It will be 2 other drivers, but i know it will be pushed off just like the Button and Alonso accident.

Which i can say looks eerily similar to a few of the Hamilton accidents where he's been penalized. But Ali G's law doesn't apply.

Di Resta is under the effects of Ali G's law as well, as he has the Sn. Hamilton in his camp.

[andrew]

Hamilton's fans will win this argument simply because they will keep at it until everybody else has had enough.

Actually no one will win and ultimately Giblet will lock the thread due to another squirrel infestation. It'll go in circles until the next big hoo-haa where the same arguments will roll over onto that.

The simple fact is, it was deemed a racing incident. Hamilton has accepted it was one of those things and has moved on it seems. Probably best for us armchair enthusiasts to do the same. No point flogging a dead horse.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

"...and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver."

And we all know who Hamilton's idol is

The gap didnt exist. Thats the point Shrieker.

Button held to the designated racing line that meant the line hamilton was taking would invariably end up in the wall. Hamilton with his experience of Canada should know this too. Had he run right instead of left we may be talking of a Hamilton victory OR given his last 2 races another incident.

Not saying there he was an idiot, but he was impatient.

[beelsebob]

The gap didnt exist. Thats the point Shrieker.

And that's why Montoya drove through it?

Button held to the designated racing line that meant the line hamilton was taking would invariably end up in the wall. Hamilton with his experience of Canada should know this too. Had he run right instead of left we may be talking of a Hamilton victory OR given his last 2 races another incident.

Not saying there he was an idiot, but he was impatient.

And that's why the FIA, Button and Hamilton all agree that it was a valid attempt?

[vall]

Agreed, very poor judgement in this race. He tries to much to make up for the inferior car he has. Who can blame him really, with the freak talent the kid has it´s understandable and if Mclaren doesn´t give him a better car it´s sayonara and What´s up Red Bull.

He´s just entering his prime and to waste all that speed on an inferior car is not very good. They have an obligation to Hamilton to give him the best car on the grid.

there are quite a few very talented driver out there that equally deserve the best car. I do not see Ham as any different to say he deserves it more

[vall]

Nobody ever drove anyone off the track. the only person who drove himself off the track was Hamilton and Hamilton only.

If your wheel is on the grass and paint, not the tarmac trying to avoid being hit by someone, you're being driven off the track. There's another simple definition.

Button didn't do it intentionally, which is I'm sure why he avoided any punishment, but he still drove hamilton off the track.

C'mon, it was Ham's choice not to use his brakes and avoid going off track. Nobody forced him not to use the brakes

[beelsebob]

Nobody ever drove anyone off the track. the only person who drove himself off the track was Hamilton and Hamilton only.

If your wheel is on the grass and paint, not the tarmac trying to avoid being hit by someone, you're being driven off the track. There's another simple definition.

Button didn't do it intentionally, which is I'm sure why he avoided any punishment, but he still drove hamilton off the track.

C'mon, it was Ham's choice not to use his brakes and avoid going off track. Nobody forced him not to use the brakes

Being off line in the wet next to the pit wall forced him not to use the brakes. The fact that he shouldn't have been forced off the track in the first place meant it shouldn't have really been in his head anyway.

[sAx]

"...and if you no longer go for a gap that exists, you're no longer a racing driver."

And we all know who Hamilton's idol is

The gap didnt exist. Thats the point Shrieker.

Button held to the designated racing line that meant the line hamilton was taking would invariably end up in the wall. Hamilton with his experience of Canada should know this too. Had he run right instead of left we may be talking of a Hamilton victory OR given his last 2 races another incident.

Not saying there he was an idiot, but he was impatient.

I posted following into another forum following the Monaco GP:

Desire to maximize ability leads to frustration if for any reason this is not realised. Increased frustration leads to an increase in the taking of risk. Lewis will not be happy unless he is seen as the best of his generation, this same motivation fueled Senna and Villeneuve. Comparisons with the latter two are therefore worrying, as I believe this frustration played a significant part in Zolder ‘82 and Imola ‘94. Prost recounts the high emotional state Villeneuve was in the week before Zolder, believing that his teammate Pironi had committed an act of treachery on the last lap of San Marino, so was attempting to put the record straight during qualifying at Zolder to re-assert his No1 status at Ferrari. Notwithstanding that he should be at least a 2x WDC, I trust Lewis will learn the lessons behind the tragedies of the past and not let the frustrations of team strategy or uncompetitive equipment lead to severe over-stepping of the mark.

I also recall the late and great rally driver Roger Clark, speaking to the equally great Colin McRae on he eve of the RAC Rally (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIt_npqFNdQ), where Colin was the favoured UK based star to win the event for the first time since Roger some 25yrs previously. After Colin took Roger for a spin in his Subaru Legacy, Roger cautioned, 'remember the prizes come at the end of the rally!' Sadly it was a lesson that Colin was never to learn! Whilst my support will always be firmly pinned to the Hamilton mast, therein lies a cautionary tale for him. DC summed it up well during the commentary, "we all know he is great, but you cannot drive the car faster than it will go, he needs to let the races come to him".

sAx

[zeph]

From Adam Cooper's blog:

Meanwhile he confirmed that he and Button had talked during the red flag.

“When they had the long break Jenson came up to the room and just said ‘Sorry about that I didn’t see you,’ and I said, ‘Yeah my fault entirely, I was in the wrong place really at the wrong time,’ and that’s it. We’re good team mates, I think.”

http://adamcooperf1.com/2011/06/13/lewi ... rong-time/

To be clear, that is Hamilton talking.

But I'm sure the fanatics will figure out a way to twist this around.