Canadian GP 2011 - Circuit Gilles Villeneuve

[sAx]

Just for reference – Jenson thinks its in the past now too – he's apologised to Lewis, and the two consider it done.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula ... 755503.stm

For sure JB's view is one take:

"He's a racer, a fighter," said Button. "For me that is the reason why I wanted to be here [at McLaren], against and with a driver that is super talented, one of the best drivers Formula 1 has ever seen."

... Another might be that if he is unable to reign in his magnificent talent a little, then all the daring do and brilliant opvertakes will count for little in the final analysis.

When did this change from a discussion of a racing incident to a discussion of whether you like Hamilton's driving style?

Something wrong with your analysis I'm afraid, no inference from me about driving style, but more about wining future championships!

sAx

[Mandrake]

@Mandrake, he also got several free tyre stops out of the safety cars in Canada so overall I don't think he did too badly from it.

Free Pitstops, being roughly 4-6 seconds in the lead.....how do you need a free pit stop then? Unless something bad happens he'll join back in front.....with the SC the 10 second gap he had was brought to 0, I don't call that advantage at all

[beelsebob]

@Mandrake, he also got several free tyre stops out of the safety cars in Canada so overall I don't think he did too badly from it.

Free Pitstops, being roughly 4-6 seconds in the lead.....how do you need a free pit stop then? Unless something bad happens he'll join back in front.....with the SC the 10 second gap he had was brought to 0, I don't call that advantage at all

You call losing a 4 second advantage and replacing it with a 20 second gain "no advantage"?

[Mandrake]

Well then, explain me how you think he profited by 20 seconds? Imagine this: Vettel leads with 5 seconds, Massa is second. Massa pits, Vettel one lap later. Massa makes up 1 second because of newer tyres. After Vettel's stop he's only 4 seconds in the lead. Period.

Now take this, Massa makes a pitstop, Vettel doesn't. 2 laps later the SC is out, Vettel pits, stays 1st but his advantage is now down to what, 0,5 seconds? At maximum......this free pitstop thingy doesn't work here.....it would have worked for a backmarker waiting long for the first stop and then gaining massively from the SC, but this isn't the case for the race leader!

[beelsebob]

Well... he would normally have to come into the pits, slow down to the speed limit, come into his box, get up to the pit lane speed limit again, and drive out of the pits... this takes about 20 seconds. By doing it behind the SC, he immediately gained it all back again.

Lets imagine another scenario (the one that happened, so we don't really need to imagine). Button stops, taking 20 seconds for his pit stop and comes out behind a bunch of people. Then the SC comes out, then Vettel stops with all the other cars running slowly because they have times flashed up on their dashes that they have to drive to. Vettel doesn't lose any position because of this, and immediately makes his 20 second stop back.

[Mandrake]

I still don't get your point, sorry....relative track position remains roughly the same.....After Button comes out in the middle of the pack, he'll regain the spots as soon as all the other drivers do their pitstops.

He even came closer to Vettel by this. Surely he had a bunch of cars between him and Vettel, but some of them were due to stop again, some were very easy to overtake and within a couple of laps he was where he was before, but closer to Vettel thanks to the SC.

If Vettel was the last guy to do a pitstop, and the guy in P2 was doing his Pitstop being 4 seconds behind, Vettel would have been some 24 secs ahead by then. So the 20 seconds he loses, were gained before due to the other guy pitting. Same happens with the SC, only that his 4 secs lead is crushed to nothing.

Not trying to get into an argument with you, I'm just trying to get your point how Vettel benefitted from the SC today.

[beelsebob]

To Put the Hamilton Bashing in perspective, here's a list of minor mistakes that various drivers made:

• Hamilton – 1 incident – lap 5.
• Schumacher – 1 incident – lap 7.
• Button - 1 incident - lap 8.
• Alonso - 1 incident - lap 37.
• Sutil - 1 incident - lap 40.
• DiResta - 1 incident - lap 42.
• Massa - 1 incident - lap 54.
• Webber - 2 incidents - laps 55 and 64.
• Heidfeld - 1 incident - lap 56.
• Vettel - 1 incident - lap 70.

So, we have 11 of the 24 drivers having made a mistake at some point during the race, one of them twice – why are we going after Hamilton?

[andrew]

Try putting them in order of stupidity, plus Hamilton has form (as the police might say).

Either that or some folks just like winding up the Hamilton fans.

[beelsebob]

Try putting them in order of stupidity, plus Hamilton has form (as the police might say).

Either that or some folks just like winding up the Hamilton fans.

Okay, in order of stupidity, most stupid first:

• Vettel - 1 incident - lap 70.
• Sutil - 1 incident - lap 40.
• Heidfeld - 1 incident - lap 56.
• Alonso - 1 incident - lap 37.
• Schumacher - 1 incident - lap 7.
• DiResta - 1 incident - lap 42.
• Button - 1 incident - lap 8.
• Massa - 1 incident - lap 54.
• Hamilton - 1 incident - lap 5.
• Webber - 2 incidents - lap 55 and 64.

The order of the last 5 is pretty debatable, but the first 5 should be pretty much right.

[andrew]

I think Hamilton's 2 were pretty stupid. Beginners mistakes really, especially the one with Webber.

[beelsebob]

I think Hamilton's 2 were pretty stupid. Beginners mistakes really, especially the one with Webber.

The one with webber was no more stupid that webber's two much much bigger understears against schumacher.
I don't know what other one you were referring to – hamilton only caused one incident, at least that's what the FIA say.

[andrew]

He was involved in 2. I think the fault is more his on the one with Button. He should have braked when he saw the gap was too small. Simple as that.

I don't recall Webber hitting anyone though. He and Schumacher were close racing with no contact - how it should be done.

[timd]

They do have groundhogs at Canada dont they? or is that somewhere else. That might explain this thread

[beelsebob]

He was involved in 2. I think the fault is more his on the one with Button. He should have braked when he saw the gap was too small. Simple as that.

I don't recall Webber hitting anyone though. He and Schumacher were close racing with no contact - how it should be done.

The lack of contact with the understeer was pure luck. He had to drive off the track twice, and on the next attempt, where he oversteered he came oh so close to wiping button out. To say that hamilton understeering a little was a much bigger mistake than Webber doing it 2 times, and then getting it very very wrong is rather surprising.

Re the button incident – where a clear FIA decision was available, I used that to build the list. The FIA agree with me that it was more Button's fault than Hamilton's.

[andrew]

The difference is that Webber didn't bounce off anyone else.