Mercedes GP W02

[PlatinumZealot]

They should have copied that shizzle from day one!

[jav]

I wouldn't say Renault is a better team BUT- I think there is a much higher probability that Renault can bring a fight to MGP, than MGP can bring a fight to the #3 team.

I hesitate to call everything about the team poor but - the execution and development of W02 has been a disappointment. It's improved recently but it's too little too late.

[Ferraripilot]

I'm curious to see how much more performance the W02 gains from the new exhaust.

Yup. They are close to extracting everything the car has to give with this new arrangement. Renault could do the same arrangement but it will take them more time to make it work considering all their race data for R31 is based on a completely different exhaust paradigm. MB's was at least somewhat close to the RB system the entire time.

[PlatinumZealot]

Could it be argued that the front exiting exhaust is much more difficult to master than the blown diffuser, and so it would be a cakewalk if Reanualt switched to EBD?
just putting it out there.

[dren]

Could it be argued that the front exiting exhaust is much more difficult to master than the blown diffuser, and so it would be a cakewalk if Reanualt switched to EBD?
just putting it out there.

That is a posibility. I don't know how much of the underside of the Renault they will have to change to better work with a rear blown diffuser. It'll be interesting, because Renault seems to think they will reap some good gains.

I wonder if the W02 will open up and blow under the floor as well in future races.

[munudeges]

Could it be argued that the front exiting exhaust is much more difficult to master than the blown diffuser, and so it would be a cakewalk if Reanualt switched to EBD? just putting it out there.

Not an unreasonable assumption to make. Renault took a risk with their approach and I think it was always a long-shot considering that their exhausts were further away from the diffuser and where the grip is generated at the rear tyres without skirts to aid it.

I do agree that Renault's attention to details and engineering is, all things considered, just better than Mercedes. I shudder to think what the Volvo exhaust people would have come up with at Merc if they had decided to front exit their exhausts.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Good thing percieved attention to detail of arm chair experts, is not the big differentiator being made out in some quarters here.
Renault could have all the attention to detail in the world, it's still not as quick as the w02.

People bemoan mercedes due to them not switching exhausts sooner... Well I didnt see renault change at silverstone... Where the stinging criticism there?

Facts remain after renaults false dawn start to the season, with podiums and points, they cannot live with a shortwheel based "including finished" rehashed Honda with merc v8 and a bloke who's apparently masquerading as an engineer.

There is some severe hyperbole going on here and I think the mods need to bring a big brush and clean this thread, including this post.

[ForMuLaOne]

Are we talking about MGP R31 or what? It is completely out of scope talking about Renault. It may be a contender but what counts is lap times. You may tell that the W02 is not as sophisticated as other cars, just by its look. But if you believe that a car`s look defines it´s speed, then why has the R31 not have won the championship already

DEFINETELY Mercedes has not brought any updates until Barcelona this season....but nevertheless they weren`t losing position in the pecking order. So, having a car with an entire new concept ( unlike red bull for example ) surely does not make things easier to understand. To me the main issue was this crappy exhaust, heatening the tyres to death...and i am pretty sure that some inconsistencies and therefore lack of speed will disappear. I hope reality will not prove me wrong [-o<

[dren]

Good point. And if the W02 starts to inch closer to the top three cars during the second half of the season, it will bode well for them next year since they will have an evolution rather than some radical new car.

With the new rear exhaust, where do you all expect the next performance updates to be on the car? Do you think the double radiators will spill over to the W03? Will we see the return of the MK3 frong wing?

I think we'll see some reworking of the rear bodywork a few times before the year is out. The front and rear wing seem pretty well sorted, not sure if there is much to gain there.

[PlatinumZealot]

Good thing percieved attention to detail of arm chair experts, is not the big differentiator being made out in some quarters here.
Renault could have all the attention to detail in the world, it's still not as quick as the w02.

People bemoan mercedes due to them not switching exhausts sooner... Well I didnt see renault change at silverstone... Where the stinging criticism there?

Facts remain after renaults false dawn start to the season, with podiums and points, they cannot live with a shortwheel based "including finished" rehashed Honda with merc v8 and a bloke who's apparently masquerading as an engineer.

There is some severe hyperbole going on here and I think the mods need to bring a big brush and clean this thread, including this post.

I like that line of reasoning. But Renault is running them close so far in the season and they are coming with 0.3 second upgrades for Germany. The pace improvement for the WO2 might be kept on the down low(wily old Brawn), but we will see who comes out better.

[xpensive]

Could it be argued that the front exiting exhaust is much more difficult to master than the blown diffuser, and so it would be a cakewalk if Reanualt switched to EBD? just putting it out there.

Not an unreasonable assumption to make. Renault took a risk with their approach and I think it was always a long-shot considering that their exhausts were further away from the diffuser and where the grip is generated at the rear tyres without skirts to aid it.

I do agree that Renault's attention to details and engineering is, all things considered, just better than Mercedes. I shudder to think what the Volvo exhaust people would have come up with at Merc if they had decided to front exit their exhausts.

I agree completely, Renault shoot themselves in the foot with the strange xhaust layout, funny thing is that Mercedes, according to JET anyway, were ready to copy it without much further analysis, what does that tell you about their design team?

For the record, I take everything from JET at face value nowadays.

[donskar]

Poor work planning and practices in the work place compared to the likes of mclaren.

You know this how?

4th fastest and they are poor? Thats more than harsh....

Actually, 4th fastest (at best) IS poor when you remember this is Mercedes we are talking about. They are (their marketing says) a world leader in automotive technology; they take great pride (they say) in their engineering excellence. They have two key players from the dream team. They surely have or have access to the resources needed to compete at the front of the grid. Yet they are -- at best -- the poorest performing of the major teams.

Their car is a failure -- not every mechanical device, even from the best technical teams is a winner. I only question how long M-B will allow themselves to be disgraced on the world stage.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Donskar

I fully agree the W02 is not up to the Mercedes standard.

[xpensive]

...
Their car is a failure -- not every mechanical device, even from the best technical teams is a winner. I only question how long M-B will allow themselves to be disgraced on the world stage.

The car is indeed terrible and apart from that glimpse of hope in China, which even I fell for, their season is beginning to look futile. While I'm sure that the Daimler board will stick to their committment of three seasons, but that's surely it, afterwhich McLaren will return to "getting the best engines" position.

I'm certain that Ron and Whitmarch is giggling quietly, knowing Norb for fifteen odd seasons that is.

[PlatinumZealot]

Poor work planning and practices in the work place compared to the likes of mclaren.

You know this how?

4th fastest and they are poor? Thats more than harsh....

Actually, 4th fastest (at best) IS poor when you remember this is Mercedes we are talking about. They are (their marketing says) a world leader in automotive technology; they take great pride (they say) in their engineering excellence. They have two key players from the dream team. They surely have or have access to the resources needed to compete at the front of the grid. Yet they are -- at best -- the poorest performing of the major teams.

Their car is a failure -- not every mechanical device, even from the best technical teams is a winner. I only question how long M-B will allow themselves to be disgraced on the world stage.

Mercedes is not the shining example of German engineering now, it's just the same old Honda people washed over in a cheap silver coating. Think Casio for the wealthy.