Mercedes GP W02

[mep]

They are also suposedly running a complex front-rear suspension coupling system. I don't know how much benefit this is to the car.

I highly doubt they do have anything like this.
We have not seen any sign of it and there is no talking about it anywhere. Also judging their car they don't seem to have the abilities to do so.
It is the kind of stories like their "magical automatical f-duct" which they never had or the ride height lowering system of RedBull.

[dren]

This system doesn't sound too far fetched because supposedly a few teams already do something similar, just not to the extent Mercedes is. We haven't heard a lot about it, but I wouldn't write it off completely.

[jav]

... And next year they have the advange that they can't make the same stupid mistake again.

It seems the same was said last year and it proved true ..they didn't make the same stupid mistakes this year, they made a whole set of new ones.

Last years car suffered from several issues culminating in lap time defficiencies not helped by "lowish" trap speeds. This years car has suffered from several new issues (and some old ones like tire management) and was not helped by "lowish" corner speeds (although trap speeds were excellent). Net gain (points wise)equalled ZERO- despite 1 year of learning. Not a trend that would indicate an expectation of progression -significant or otherwise.

In fact - the team has already resolved that next years car has no title hopes. They are designing for 2nd or 3rd place. My question is; Why would anyone aim for 2nd instead of first - even before the effort begins? It seems to me an admission that they don't have the ability (for whatever reason) to improve W02 in any meaningful- results assured - way. What happened to a mans reach should exceed his grasp?

[mep]

Schumacher already said the new car will not be able to win the championship and as he seems to be the only one who makes realistically comments I believe him.

[bhall]

sorry but how is this relevant?

Because someone asked earlier about how ride height effects top speed.

[MIKEY_!]

Oh ok bhallg2k i missed that. BTW What mistakes are there left to make, I wonder if they can really make a whole set of new ones again. PS they are aiming for 2nd/3rd cause they are being realistic. After two years of saying they had a great car and then not having one they want to avoid looking even more foolish than they already have appeared. Even that sort of placing would help them regain a lot of respect as a genuine and serious front running team. bhallg2k

[Hemsy]

I think a realistic progression would be to regularly finish on the podium. The reason the team (Schumi included) have said that they will not be fighting for the championship next year is because no team gains that much performance in just one year. Next year will be about building a fundamentally sound car that can then act as the base for the W04 to mount a serious championship challenge.

[LotusF1]

sorry but how is this relevant?

Because someone asked earlier about how ride height effects top speed.

bingo!

[jav]

...The reason the team (Schumi included) have said that they will not be fighting for the championship next year is because no team gains that much performance in just one year....

I disagree- Brawn and MSC are not new to this. Yet in October of 2010, Brawn had this to say about 2011 and W02.

... Ross Brawn in today’s Gazzetta dello Sport, in which he says that he believes Mercedes will have a car to challenge for the championship next year and confirms that “Mercedes will be my last team.”

With all his experience and knowledge, did he not know then that no team gains that much performance in just one year? The more realistic conclusion is that either; he said it (knowing it wasn't possible) to save face- in which case he'd be a liar and nothing he says can be trusted OR he genuinly beleived it at the time. I think he genuinly beleived it at the time, expected it at the time and when they fell so far short, he came to grips that this team just does not have the ability to develop a winner.

Now he's standing back and admitting that lack of ability, or at least hedging his predictions to be inline with his own expectations. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense why he'd predict a title contender in one year in 2010- and then in 2011 he predicts NO title contender for an additional 2 years. That also fits with the major technical employment drive at MGP- they know they don't have the ability, they are trying to get that ability, but don't think the pieces will be inplace in time to be of major consequence for 2012.

[Dragonfly]

Our folk has a saying "Better bite a big chunk than to say a big word" (it loses a bit in translation, but you get the idea)

[dren]

[Hemsy]

...The reason the team (Schumi included) have said that they will not be fighting for the championship next year is because no team gains that much performance in just one year....

I disagree- Brawn and MSC are not new to this. Yet in October of 2010, Brawn had this to say about 2011 and W02.

... Ross Brawn in today’s Gazzetta dello Sport, in which he says that he believes Mercedes will have a car to challenge for the championship next year and confirms that “Mercedes will be my last team.”

With all his experience and knowledge, did he not know then that no team gains that much performance in just one year? The more realistic conclusion is that either; he said it (knowing it wasn't possible) to save face- in which case he'd be a liar and nothing he says can be trusted OR he genuinly beleived it at the time. I think he genuinly beleived it at the time, expected it at the time and when they fell so far short, he came to grips that this team just does not have the ability to develop a winner.

Now he's standing back and admitting that lack of ability, or at least hedging his predictions to be inline with his own expectations. Otherwise, it just doesn't make sense why he'd predict a title contender in one year in 2010- and then in 2011 he predicts NO title contender for an additional 2 years. That also fits with the major technical employment drive at MGP- they know they don't have the ability, they are trying to get that ability, but don't think the pieces will be inplace in time to be of major consequence for 2012.

Exactly despite being in the business for so long it was naive of Ross to claim that they will be competing for the championship without their or as a matter of fact any of the other team's car even having turned a wheel. Even then it is stupid to make predictions because everyone knows that results in winter testing mean nothing come the start of the season. Look at Ferrari who in winter testing looked like Red Bull's closest competitor & yet we all know how they started the season. The opposite can be said of Mclaren who looked like they would struggle like in 2009 yet come the start of the season they were Red Bull's closest competitors and the only ones who had any chance of preventing Red Bull from walking away with both titles.

[dren]

Remember Renault said they were going to be Red Bull's main rival this year?

[ringo]

So far into the season and not a dang thing changed with this car. Their hand was force with the exhuast and redbull bull wing elements and that was it.

Beginning of the season, you would think we would see a whole new car come Melbourne.
We almost fell for it.

Will they continue to make duds? The cars never seem to be on the right track, and they never seem to be good enough worth developing through the season to help the following years car.

The only thing Merc can be proud of is that they tested the DRS earlier than anyone else and they have the best system. And this may not be true, as it seems from Monza that they don't need DRS with the mighty Mercedes engine.

[Morteza]

That's true, Ringo. I always had the question about that when you have no TD, who oversees the design process? Who is to blame for W01 and W02? Never got any answer. They are both cars with not much difference.