Idea for V6 turbo configuration

[manchild]

I hope illustrations speak for them selves. My basic intention was to get rid of exhaust manifolds on each cylinder block, because regulations don't allow bi-turbo, but only single one.

Having in mind that turbo charger therefore can't be placed in none of the sidepods, it becomes logical that it must be positioned along the cars center line. Same goes for inter-cooler, which as I'm suggesting would be placed on top of the FW33 flat style gearbox.

Compressed air would be delivered to cylinders by two slim manifolds at outer side of each cylinder block, while the exhaust manifold would obviously stand where on contemporary engines airbox and trumpets are.

I believe that it would be small increase of COG but more gained than lost on any conventional approach, allowing extremely slim sidepods that would virtually house nothing but radiators since compressed air manifold would be narrower than cylinder heads.

Air for inter-coolers would be supplied by split tunel within sidepods. The engine cover would be similar to RB7 big elliptical outlet, with post-turbo exhaust outlet within.





Now please, don't tell me that regs. don't allow switching sides of valve-train. [-o<

[PhillipM]

Pretty much, afaik the exhaust must exit from the outer surface of the cylinder heads.

[twoshots]

Yup, no 'hot vee'. Best make those exhaust a lot longer

[scarbs]

Sorry, but also the turbo must be inline with the engine not at 90-degrees to it.

[majicmeow]

is there a link from the FIA for the V6 regulations? I find it sooooo stupid that they want to push eco-friendlier powertrains but would not allow multiple configurations to push the manufactures harder to meet the eco-requirements and promote new developments that may actually be MORE eco-frienldy.

(edit) found it... at least they do not seem to limit variable geometry turbochargers. From what I understand, they only restrict variable geometry exhaust manifolds... at least THAT could be interesting. (/edit)

[wunderkind]

Man child,

You design is pretty similar to the BMW turbo V8 engines of the current X6 and M5. The inlet valves are on the outside of the vee and the exhaust valves/manifolds and the turbocharger are inside the vee.

[WhiteBlue]

http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... _20.07.pdf

The regulations can be found here

5.1.6 Pressure charging may only be effected by the use of a sole single stage compressor linked to a sole single stage exhaust turbine by a common shaft parallel to the engine crankshaft and within 25mm of the car centre line. An electrical motor generator (MGUH) may be directly coupled to the same shaft.


5.1.9 Engine exhaust gases may only exit the cylinder head through outlets outboard of the cylinder bore centre line and not from within the “V” centre.

[riff_raff]

manchild,

Your turbo layout is actually a good idea for a single turbo V6 or V8. In fact, it is already used on production diesel V8 engines:



And also on V6 diesel race engines:

[manchild]

Thank you all for the insights.

F1 has become as strict as if the rules were written by Stalin or some of his successors. It is also equally boring when it matters technical aspect. Chapman would be found obsolete these days, since regulations leave no space for creative thinking, and all the work can be easily done by any experienced engineer skillful with CAD.

[xpensive]

I think the FIA-logic is that some teams simply have too much money to spend, why more liberal rules would set off a spending-frenzy leading to a three-way championship, four-way if Mercedes could get their act together somehow.

What's that...it already is a three-way championship?

[Billzilla]

Why would you want cooling air over the exhaust(s)?
You want to keep that as hot as possible to keep the energy in the system for the turbine to extract.

[Giblet]

The rules say the shaft has to run parallel to the crank. What if the shaft is split and gears around a corner?

[manchild]

OK, this should meed the regulations - conventional valvetrain.





Exhaust manifold bent upwards over cylinder heads to meet on top of primary turbine. Shortest possible way.

Compressor turbine directly fitted on top of intercooler. Interconnect shaped to fit the space between cylinder heads. Tubing for each cylinder also directly from intercooler.

Cold air for intercooler can be supplied from sidepods or via roll hoop aperture (depending on sponsor are b.s. regulations). Cold air should enter from rear end of the engine, in the tunnel defined by engine block, cylinder heads and intercooler on top, and obviously go trough intercooler upwards cooling the turbocharger too, exiting in same direction next to exhaust outlet.

[ringo]

It would work of course, but you can imaging what a headache it would be to work on.
Also your body work may be bulging around that area.
I though about this idea, but the pipes curling over is a bit complicated with all the wiring on the valve covers and also the pipes will be quite long to curl around without touching the engine, then having to be supported to hold up the heavy turbo, and against thermal fatigue.
Then you have your waste gates to locate.

Here's my simple idea. Not as compact though. And it forces the team to use pull rod suspension since it's sitting on top the gear box.



Question:

The turbo shaft has to be parallel to the car center line, but it doesn't say if it has to be horizontal.
I was think thinking about a vertical shaft turbo charger.
Are there any vertical shaft turbo chargers out there?

[xpensive]

What if the turbo is located on the side of the engine, beneath the cylinders, only fed from one cylinder bank like the Saab V6, while the xhaust from the other bank feeds the heat-recovery system?

The basic idea being that one bank should perhaps be enough for a boost as low as 0.7-1.0 Bar at 10-13 kRpm?