Indian GP 2011 - Buddh

[beelsebob]

There's barely 30-40 meters between the flags and the display...

And the flags are barely sticking out from behind a ruddy great fence!!

Yep – this is *exactly* why they introduced lights – 1) they're more visible by dint of being emissive, 2) for the marshal's safety, he wants his hands and head behind the fence, a light can stick out much further.

[beelsebob]

Surely there is room for an appeal. I can't believe with this kind of confusion the penalized drivers/teams will just accept the penalty.

I'm pretty sure that ultimately, it would come down to "there was a hazard indaction on the track, no matter what way you take that, you should be aware of it and slowing for it". I still don't think the FIA should be so childish as to not admit their mistake though. Might as well penalise the various drivers who had DRS open when they shouldn't in the race – after all, they're strictly speaking breaking the rules.

[Traction]

Surely there is room for an appeal. I can't believe with this kind of confusion the penalized drivers/teams will just accept the penalty.

I'm pretty sure that ultimately, it would come down to "there was a hazard indaction on the track, no matter what way you take that, you should be aware of it and slowing for it". I still don't think the FIA should be so childish as to not admit their mistake though. Might as well penalise the various drivers who had DRS open when they shouldn't in the race – after all, they're strictly speaking breaking the rules.

I hear you and in regards to an appeal from LH there won't be one forth coming if this statement is anything to go by...


Hamilton: Penalty my fault - as usual!

Lewis Hamilton admits that he was at fault for the infringement that earned him a three-place grid penalty ahead of the Indian GP.

Lewis Hamilton has accepted responsibility for drawing a three-place grid penalty ahead of the inaugural Indian Grand Prix, revealing that he had no defence for speeding under yellow flags in opening practice.

Although he posted the fastest time of the Friday morning session at the spectacular Buddh International Circuit, the Briton was called before the stewards, along with Sauber's Sergio Perez, to answer charges of failing to slow when passing the recovery effort on Pastor Maldonado's stranded Williams. Both drivers were subsequently handed three-place penalties to take effect after qualifying on Saturday, placing an early dent in Hamilton's hopes of taking a third win in 2011.

"I was engaging the DRS when the yellow flags were on and you're not allowed to," the McLaren driver conceded to journalists, "I went in there and put my hands up and said I accept whatever penalty I get and they gave me one.

"I don't have any feelings. It is what it is. I'm a bit frustrated with myself as it's my fault - as usual. I just have to do what I can from wherever I qualify tomorrow. I have less hopes of pole - but tomorrow could be a different day. I have no-one else to blame do I? There's only me driving."

Fellow Briton Johnny Herbert rejoins the stewards panel in India, having performed the role of advising from a driver's perspective at several races over the past two years.

[myurr]

Yeah I saw that article earlier today. Can't help but think that he's only put out that statement to try and minimise the news articles written about yet another incident for him.

[beelsebob]

Yeah I saw that article earlier today. Can't help but think that he's only put out that statement to try and minimise the news articles written about yet another incident for him.

Not sure – I have a suspicion that ultimately, what's forefront in his mind is safety. He hasn't so much seemed to mind having accidents that were fairly "safe". My bet is he knew it was unsafe, and said basically "I don't want to put peoples lives in danger any more than you want me to put them there, it's a fair cop".

[Richard]

I honestly thought the yellows were being waved at the entry or right at the exit of the penultimate corner and that's why they penalised him.

I've watched the end of FP1 again (full coverage not highlights). The camera doesn't pick up any flags of any colour until the frame I captured earlier.

However, Hamilton said in the interview that he used DRS in a yellow sector. He also set a fastest lap so that means he was at full pace with DRS open as much as possible.

So looking at the FP1 footage, the yellow on the lap counter clears at 1:35:51 on the BBC iPlayer. Hamilton crosses the line at 1:35:06. That means the track was only clear for the last 15 seconds of his lap. How long is that last sector? Must be more than 15 sec. Hence Hamilton was in the last sector when it was yellow.

The double yellow and green in the last corner is a side issue. Hamilton's penalty was incurred 15 seconds before that while the sector was still yellow.

[myurr]

The flag doesn't cover the entire timing sector, just the section of track where the incident has occurred - i.e. each timing sector is divided into many smaller sections of track, each with marshals with flags and track status lights.

Either way that picture clearly shows Hamilton's car in that sector with the green light and the yellow flags. There is also the tweet that I posted earlier saying that Hamilton's setting a quick lap now that the yellow flags have been removed. Between those two pieces of evidence I'm 100% sure that the lights were showing a clear track but there was that one set of yellow flags being shown. I was watching the live timing as well and saw the same thing.

[imightbewrong]

Okay, I'm not sure that the on screen indicator is synced to the driver indicators. But assuming it is, let me just juggle some numbers.

The time between those screens is 5s as you can see on the time stamp in the lower right corners. The straight is about 300m long. To make it easy I assume he was traveling 200km/h (55m/s)on average on that straight to the point he is and that that distance is 200m (corner before is about 140km/h). 200m/55m/s = 3.6s.

Is that a huge margin? Is it inconceivable that he ran with DRS enabled in the zone before that and that he took the corner too quick while the lights were still yellow and double yellow flags were waved?


I just did this really quickly so I might be hugely off my mark here. But it is turning into a silly discussion again. The decision was taken already, can you please discuss this in a new thread if you wanna go on about it? It is polluting the race thread by now..

[kalinka]

How many times we saw marshalls wawing a blue flag when it's a position fight? Countless. Now they want to penalise overtaking under blue flag - no matter it's not the case ? That's ignoring the flag -> drive trough penalty. I'm just ironic here, but it's really a FIA messup. Inconsistency is killing the sport.

[FJCA]

Felipe Massa playing with the crown jewels


http://vimeo.com/31268180

[Richard]

imightbewrong's numbers are similar to mine. He was close enough to make it conceivable. Obviously McLaren and FIA have the GPS data and timing. those cold facts will say yes or no, they haven't appealed, so one can presume the facts back up the penalty.

If it had been that one rogue marshal, then we'd have heard comments about being unlucky.

None of the participants are disputing it and they know more about it than us. So end of story. Nothing to see here. Move along please!

[Crucial_Xtreme]

I would never pretend to know what HAM saw or didn't see, although he did admit to not slowing down. Steve Matchett did say he thought it was a little over the top. But you can clearly see yellow flags waving to the right of HAM.

[kalinka]

Ok move along...Don't you think Hamilton screwed up that Bob Marley helmet design? The title on the top is "One Love", but I think "No woman no cry" would be better

[ringo]

Yeah I saw that article earlier today. Can't help but think that he's only put out that statement to try and minimise the news articles written about yet another incident for him.

Not sure – I have a suspicion that ultimately, what's forefront in his mind is safety. He hasn't so much seemed to mind having accidents that were fairly "safe". My bet is he knew it was unsafe, and said basically "I don't want to put peoples lives in danger any more than you want me to put them there, it's a fair cop".

Nope he just doesn't care any more. He can't win with the FIA so why fight them?

I still want to draw attention to this and Rosberg's crash though.

Which was more dangerous?

[Traction]

LH getting some tips from Mr Bean....

Interesting to hear the commentators take on the LH penalty...bottom line...yellow flags were out at the scene and LH never slowed so basically a transgression of the rules occurred. Interesting thing is that if he never recieved the 3 place penalty then a reprimand would have been implemented and considering LH already has 2 to his name the repercussions would have been more drastic than a 3 place penalty...race ban?