COTA Austin - construction and infrastructure

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.

What do you think of the prospect of a USGP 2012 at Austin Texas

Good thinking. Place has good infra structure and nice climate in winter.
126
47%
Not good as it has no motor sport tradition in the US.
23
9%
I will wait to see how it will shape up.
97
36%
I don't care.
23
9%
 
Total votes: 269

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WhiteBlue
92
Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Bob S. wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:He cancelled the contract because Hellmund did not manage to get the first fee financed by Epstein. Apparently Epstein refused a small finance period of some weeks for the first $25m to bridge a gap between the pay out by METF and the due date by Ecclestone. We know that at the same time Hellmund and Epstein had differences about the right strategy for the business. The nature of the disagreement is unknown. We also know that the failure to pay that fee in time triggered the METF to withdraw their finance of the first race fee for one year. And we know that the contract duration which was initially 10 years is now shortened by some years. The rest is just some very imaginative interpretation from you. It has no resemblance with the known facts.
Ok, now i sorta think you are making up "facts", have a strange story or you are VERY close with Hellmund. I say that b/c NONE of this is reported. It has no sources.
It is not me who is making up facts. You have come into the thread with 2 posts to your name and posted theories without any factual support!

All the above facts can be found with the proper sources in this thread. In most cases the sources were posted by either me or Hairy Scotsman.

To document that I have pointed you to the particular post and source for the point in time when the wandering creek site was first visited by Tilke and inspected for its potential as a site for the Austin circuit.

I could do this with every fact that I have mentioned because I have a long memory. But I don't think it would be appropriate. Why should I prove to you that you obviously never read this thread which has all the information? Everybody familiar with the issue knows that YOU ARE WRONG. All of this has been reported and posted here.

And please take note that I'm not "very close to Hellmund". I do not even know the guy. My total knowledge is derived from public sources. But the study of those sources was very diligent. I would say that you would do well by applying 10% of that diligence to reading the sources. If you did that you would not come out with so much uninformed speculation.
Bob S. wrote:Merely an fyi, but “Wandering Investors LLC” (what WB said) is different than "Wandering Creek Investments" (what you later said, after saying Wandering Investors LLC was noted in several articles). I mention it only because some are getting loose on the "facts" while doing their best to push a point of view.
Please don't quote me wrong!! I hate that. I have mentioned that Epstein's companies include "Wanderingc Investors LLC". There is only one letter missing but it makes all the difference. So much about accusing others with being "loose on the facts". Clean up your act!
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
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Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

I mention it only because some are getting loose on the "facts" while doing their best to push a point of view.
We're playing fast & loose with the facts? We need to cite sources?

Bob S. post #1:
"I hear Tavo has the MotoGP contract but wont hand it over. We lose and the really big loser is his (supposedly) best friend: Kevin Schwantz. I say supposedly b/c who would block their friend from such a deal?"


Bob S. post #2:
"Hellmund and Epstein have been on since the beginning...Everything is moving forward now. COTA updates their website, facebook or pushes items to the media a few times a week...this did NOT occur when Hellmund was on board. They are MUCH more transparent now...Bernie rescinded his deal with Hellmund. COTA did not (and could not) force Hellmund out. Bernie discovered something and cut his losses with Hellmund. Time will tell on what that something was."
Bob S. post #3:
"Hellmund is the one who kept saying he was SO close to Bernie...you never heard Bernie throw that out."
Bob S. post #5:
" I just did a google search, and I did not find a single story regarding: “Wandering Investors LLC”"


Even those terms turned up a first-page mention of Wandering Creek Investors LP. So WB made a typo. Big deal. If you looked even for 30 seconds at those search results you could see which one he was talking about.

Bob S. post #6:
" i have noticed change from COTA since early Dec."
Seriously? You mean since 12/7 when they came out of their self-induced coma after 3 weeks off?
"They are granting more interviews and more access to the site, they are working on a new website (Hellmund had a vendor that was s-l-o-w)"
Got some inside info there? Care to cite a source? Because there's no indication from the outside that any of that is true.
"their FB page and Twitter feed are more lively and updated much more frequently."
That's an absolute laugh. How do you define "more lively" or "more frequently"? The latter is demonstrably untrue. If anything, the reverse is true, and they were more active & more relevant in their posting before they shut it down. They update FB & Twitter so frequently and in so meaningful a way that they haven't posted a thing today, including the Statesman photos. That can always change, but it hasn't yet.
"All this was was a notice of change...positive change. Then the personal attacks were sent my way!!"
That's because you made so many ridiculous statements that you set off BS detectors in a big way in 5 of your 6 posts.




Anyway...here are 6 new artist's renderings just posted by Statesman.com (along with yesterday's photos and a few new ones with Bobby Epstein & Buddy Reed walking the site):

http://galleries.statesman.com/gallery/ ... 11/#335352

For example, a view from Turn 1:

Image



This story was just released as well:

http://www.statesman.com/sports/formula ... 99095.html
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Richard
Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
Location: UK

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

strad wrote:First thing ya do is lay the various underground pipes and conduits...then lay the foundation..in between ya just have pipes sticking up out of the ground.
Possibly true for domestic scale with shallow foundations. With large commercial projects you don't have the "pop ups" in place before the foundations because they get destroyed by the large equipment used in laying the foundations or piles.

If an outsider can see pipes sticking out of the ground then that means the deep foundations are finished and they're about to start on the ground slab.

edit to add... Just read the above article posted by HS. It says "Plans are to pour the base of the grandstand this week". So that's as I expected.

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Very interesting pictures and figures indeed. I just fail to find the obese workers that are populating the site according to xpensive. Those in the pictures are all rather lean to normal.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

xpensive
xpensive
214
Joined: 22 Nov 2008, 18:06
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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WhiteBlue wrote:
Very interesting pictures and figures indeed. I just fail to find the obese workers that are populating the site according to xpensive. Those in the pictures are all rather lean to normal.
Must be some of Tilke's men.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Follow me on twitter @Austin_F1 ...

Bob S.
Bob S.
0
Joined: 22 Dec 2011, 23:50

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

WhiteBlue wrote: Please don't quote me wrong!! I hate that. I have mentioned that Epstein's companies include "Wanderingc Investors LLC". There is only one letter missing but it makes all the difference. So much about accusing others with being "loose on the facts". Clean up your act!
Here is my source: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wand ... 46&bih=891

If you click on the link, you will notice Google has ONE result. That result is MY post pointing out your incorrect "fact". Wandering Investors LLC does not exist in the public realm. You either made it up, or -as I said-, you are close with Tavo or you are on the VERY inside of this deal.

BTW, I was kind to you and looked up "Wandering Investors LLC". I knew the "c" was a typo. We all make typos here. I didnt want to highlight your typo b/c of that.

Practice what you preach: clean up your act!

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
15
Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

Post

Bob S. wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote: Please don't quote me wrong!! I hate that. I have mentioned that Epstein's companies include "Wanderingc Investors LLC". There is only one letter missing but it makes all the difference. So much about accusing others with being "loose on the facts". Clean up your act!
Here is my source: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Wand ... 46&bih=891

If you click on the link, you will notice Google has ONE result. That result is MY post pointing out your incorrect "fact". Wandering Investors LLC does not exist in the public realm. You either made it up, or -as I said-, you are close with Tavo or you are on the VERY inside of this deal.

BTW, I was kind to you and looked up "Wandering Investors LLC". I knew the "c" was a typo. We all make typos here. I didnt want to highlight your typo b/c of that.

Practice what you preach: clean up your act!
LOL...

Search "Wanderingc Investors LLC", exactly as it appears in WB's post. The first 6 results refer to Wanderingc Investors LLC, Wandering Creek Investments, the 2012 F1 USGP, or Prophet Capital (Epstein's parent Company of WCI). One of those results refers to this thread.

...but thanks for playing.

ETA: Looks like WB didn't make any typo after all...but even when I search "Wandering Investors LLC" as you say you did, the 1st result refers to this thread, and the 7th refers to "WANDERING CREEK INVESTMENTS LP Austin TX". It only returns 1 result (this thread) when you use quotes (as it appears in this thread).

Like I said...details.
Last edited by hairy_scotsman on 13 Jan 2012, 16:49, edited 4 times in total.
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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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xpensive wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
Very interesting pictures and figures indeed. I just fail to find the obese workers that are populating the site according to xpensive. Those in the pictures are all rather lean to normal.
Must be some of Tilke's men.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nice try at humour! But I doubt that Tilke's men and women are busy with machinery and manual labour. According to Hairy Scotsman's sources the Tilke crew is tasked with designing and managing the construction of the track itself, the paddock, the media centre and the team accommodations. They should not have the time to move earth and bend steel for the concrete reinforcements.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

Bob S.
Bob S.
0
Joined: 22 Dec 2011, 23:50

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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ok, so this is my last response on this issue. you have worn me down (I cannot remember if it was Pup or someone else who said this many posts ago, but i agree with Pup re HS arguing arguing arguing and wearing one down). It is tiring to make statements and be attacked with falsities and THEN state: these are all very well sourced...just look in the previous posts!

Well, I have over the many years of being a bystander here. WB and HS are consistently accused of being twins, best friends (referring to the Beavis and Butthead comment), being on the inside and one person outing you directly that you were being paid by COTA. You are also accused of making up facts. I point this out because it is important for people to understand: if you attempt to say anything that is not 100% what HS and WB believe or know, they will attack you. They come with no facts, they just make false claims about you, personally.

This back and forth started when I decided to correct a statement by WB (that Epstein was a moron). That is a personal attack, esp considering there was absolutely NOTHING to back up this statement. I made other statements along the way. I agree, i did not source every statement every second. However, i was doing nothing that either of them hadnt already done (how many times has HS thrown out all kinds of detailed information about progress with no facts).

Here is my last point on this. HS - you are correct: "Wanderingc Investors LLC" pops up in a Google search. This is because it shows up in corporation wiki. HOWEVER, it does not appear in a Google News search. When i questioned this (b/c i have never heard or read about this entity (sorry, i dont surf corporation wiki), i was attacked. I was told to do my homework, read this forum front to back, it has been mentioned repeatedly, it is public knowledge, etc.

Well, this is covering your tracks. Apparently, Wanderingc Investors LLC does exist. However, i think the only people who would know that are people who made a deal with them. The only people who I assume are aware of this detail are the lawyers, Epstein, McCombs, Hellmund and any other investor we (on the outside) have not read about.

SO, as i said earlier: please support your personal attack (calling someone a moron) with facts. In addition, these blistering attacks have taken a full day away from this forum. Let's try to get back to what this forum is about.

Watch everyone, the double teaming attack will begin...NOW! :-)

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WhiteBlue
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008, 20:58
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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AFAIK Epstein isn't a member of this forum. Hence voicing an opinion of him is fair play. How often people make denigrating comments of Bernie Ecclestone or called the former president of the FiA names? Nobody on this board cares about that.

It is ridiculous to say that only lawyers would be interested in googleing Epstein's corporate ties. Everybody who is interested in the financial aspects of CotA will do this in next to no time. I happen to be interested in the political, economic and financial issues of F1 as much as I read technical stuff and post about news. People who are familiar with this forum can confirm that.

So unless the quality of Bob S. signed posts increases there will not be a great loss if we do not have to read more from him. In my opinion new posters do well to read the thread they are posting in, particularly if they are going to take a controversial position to established opinion leaders of the thread.
Last edited by WhiteBlue on 13 Jan 2012, 17:24, edited 1 time in total.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
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Joined: 13 Nov 2010, 22:47

Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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you have worn me down (I cannot remember if it was Pup or someone else who said this many posts ago, but i agree with Pup re HS arguing arguing arguing and wearing one down).
You're funny. It takes two to argue.

Stop making false statements and I'll stop correcting you.
It is tiring to make statements and be attacked with falsities

How would you know?
and THEN state: these are all very well sourced...just look in the previous posts!


You're funny, again, when you grouse about sourcing when you've given all of 1 link to back up one of your many statements...and it was wrong.
WB and HS are consistently accused of being twins, best friends (referring to the Beavis and Butthead comment), being on the inside and one person outing you directly that you were being paid by COTA.
Really? By whom? Link?
You are also accused of making up facts.


By you? By Pup? At least Pup backs up his talk.
I point this out because it is important for people to understand: if you attempt to say anything that is not 100% what HS and WB believe or know, they will attack you.


I corrected you factually. If you want an honest philosophical discussion, that's fine with me and I welcome it from you or anyone else.

They come with no facts, they just make false claims about you, personally.
False claims about you? Personal? No.

You just can't help yourself, can you?
This back and forth started when I decided to correct a statement by WB (that Epstein was a moron).That is a personal attack, esp considering there was absolutely NOTHING to back up this statement


That's not what he said. Here's what he said: "The guy is acting like a moron." That's not a personal attack & it's not calling Epstein a moron. Even if it were, the guy's now a public figure. I'm sure he understands that and can deal with the fact that his actions will come under public scrutiny and evaluation, right or wrong.
I made other statements along the way. I agree, i did not source every statement every second.
You made a LOT of statements, sourced exactly one, and it was incorrect. Remember, it wasn't us who started the sourcing nitpicking. That was you my friend.
However, i was doing nothing that either of them hadnt already done (how many times has HS thrown out all kinds of detailed information about progress with no facts).
I observe a lot of what's going on first-hand and have done so over the past 20 months. I also hear a lot from folks who are positioned to know. I also post news items and photos. I always link those. When I'm presenting information I saw first-hand, I always say that. Same for what I hear and pass on.

If I have detailed info with no link, so be it. I always say how the info comes to me.
Here is my last point on this. HS - you are correct: "Wanderingc Investors LLC" pops up in a Google search. This is because it shows up in corporation wiki. HOWEVER, it does not appear in a Google News search. When i questioned this (b/c i have never heard or read about this entity (sorry, i dont surf corporation wiki), i was attacked. I was told to do my homework, read this forum front to back, it has been mentioned repeatedly, it is public knowledge, etc.

Well, this is covering your tracks. Apparently, Wanderingc Investors LLC does exist. However, i think the only people who would know that are people who made a deal with them. The only people who I assume are aware of this detail are the lawyers, Epstein, McCombs, Hellmund and any other investor we (on the outside) have not read about.


*SIGH*

8/2010: http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stori ... ily38.html

8/2010: http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/F1%20 ... permit.pdf

8/2010: http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthr ... -!-!/page5

8/2010: http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stori ... l?page=all

8/2010: http://www.formula1blog.com/2010/08/21/ ... out-water/

8/2010: http://www.austintexasformula1.com/?cat=6

9/2010: http://www.autodrenaline.com/forum/view ... f=66&t=138

8/2010: http://blog.snappatx.org/2010/08/city-o ... prove.html

These are just a few articles or discussions that I easily found that are from way back then and referred to Wandering Creek LLC or LP and the F1 site. I found MANY more which referred to Wandering Creek as the F1 site. Practically everyone following this thing knew that the F1 site was the same site as the proposed Wandering Creek housing development.

It was common knowledge.
SO, as i said earlier: please support your personal attack (calling someone a moron) with facts. In addition, these blistering attacks have taken a full day away from this forum. Let's try to get back to what this forum is about.
Blistering attacks. LOL. You're going to have to grow some thicker skin, like Mr. Epstein, if you're going to go on like this.
Watch everyone, the double teaming attack will begin...NOW!


Hah! Funny! You're a funny guy...
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Richard
Richard
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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Seriously guys it's not worth it, step away, count to 10.

I think 99% of members on here couldn't give a gnat's crotchet whether it is "Wandering LLC" or "Wanderingc Investors LLC". You're wasting our screen space with a frankly petty argument over a spelling mistake and endless disassembly

Also, calling someone a "moron" reflects on the person doing the typing.

hairy_scotsman
hairy_scotsman
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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richard_leeds wrote:Seriously guys it's not worth it, step away, count to 10.

I think 99% of members on here couldn't give a gnat's crotchet whether it is "Wandering LLC" or "Wanderingc Investors LLC". You're wasting our screen space with a frankly petty argument over a spelling mistake and endless disassembly.
My apologies for taking too much space. I have to admit it's often difficult to resist such comments, especially when they come so loaded and pointed.
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WhiteBlue
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Re: 2012 US GP to be held in Austin

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richard_leeds wrote:Also, calling someone a "moron" reflects on the person doing the typing.
Epstein wasn't called a moron. It was said that he acted like one. He seems to get involved in an awful lot of disputes, which partially turn into legal battles. This is not the tried and trusted way to do business. One can in all honesty hold such an opinion about a public figure without being accused to go personal in discussions.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)