Importance of speed at corner entry

[Nando]

Nando is just a ferrari fanboy who can't stand to see his team not doing well and coming up with anything to try and explain away their complete lack of form and speed.

I´m rooting for Hamilton. But consider Alonso the best driver on the grid, hence the name.

Any other imaginary thoughts anyone have?

[NathanOlder]

Its clear that you wont accept your precious Ferrari understeers like a dog and has no chance of a win this season because it just cant carry the cornerspeed. If it has just oversteer, it will do well at Monza. Understeer will kill a car in high speed corners.
If you have Understeer in places like turn 8 in turkey, Eau Rouge, 130R, Copse, Stowe you wont do well. take Turn 13 in for an example, if you have understeer there and are slow through the corner, it wont matter how good your traction is on the exit you will be a sitting duck down the straight. So you wont be doing much over taking, unless you take a huge lunge into a corner and guess what, when you get there, you have buckets of understeer and will be repassed as the other car cuts buck under you


SOryy Turn 13 in China

[raymondu999]

take Turn 13 in for an example

Turn 13 in where?

Understeer will also kill a car in the low speed corners to be honest. It is EXTREMELY frustrating to not be able to get a car's front to bite into a slow corner.

[beelsebob]

Time is gained into the corners, because if you're slow into it, you've lost time "in it" – in other words – all the way through the corner is important, including the turn in and the speed carried into it.

It is not the most important part of getting a fast lap.

Not even close.

No, no part of it is "the most important part":

– If your corner entry sucks your speed through the corner will suck.
- If your straight line speed sucks you'll lose time all down the straights.
- If you have oversteer on the exit you'll not get out of corners fast.
- If you can't put traction down your straight line speed will suck.
- ...

Any of these will ruin your lap. The Ferrari appears to suffer from all 4.

[Ra8]

Nando wrote:
raymondu999 wrote:
if you were just talking of defending track position that may have merits in certain situations. But when you're looking at getting a good laptime on a hot lap - No.


me?

I´m talking about pure hotlapping. Time is gained out of corners, all the way to the next braking zone.

Not into corners. As far as the absolute most important aspect of going fast around a lap.

Clearly you need both... And oversteer is a must have in entry in to a corner. Thats ABC of racing.

Regarding understeer... of course if you brake too late understeer is unavoidable. But we're talking about understeer when the car is suppose to be neutral balanced or even oversteery and the car just doesnt turn in.

In my view Ferrari has unfortunately both. Though understeer isnt that obvious, oversteer on the other hand is... a lot! And as i said before they lack mechanical grip out of slow corners.


And on regard on the which is more important corner speed or out speed... in slow cars (karts, WTCC, etc.) clearly corner speed is more important because you just cant accelerate that fast out of the corner, in F1 (etc.) getting the car on full throttle is just a little more important, since you can put the power down sooner. Which still doesnt mean you dont need the other, not at all!

[eurocentric]

Nando is just a ferrari fanboy who can't stand to see his team not doing well and coming up with anything to try and explain away their complete lack of form and speed.

I´m rooting for Hamilton. But consider Alonso the best driver on the grid, hence the name.

Any other imaginary thoughts anyone have?

Best driver outdriven by a rookie.

I'm not imagining anything, just reading what you are writing. Now ferrari haven't got their veto at the fia and can't bend the regs to suit themselves it doesn't go quite their own way, they haven't been cheating much either recently.

[Nando]

Why isn't every corner taken with a very late apex?

There´s a balance of course. What i´m saying is corner entry is not anywhere near as important as corner exit.

Bad at corner entry - you lose time until you hit the throttle.

Bad at corner exit - you lose time out of the corner and all the way to the next braking zone.

I´m sorry but this is THE most basic information you get when learning how to go fast around a track.

Slow in, fast out. Because fast out is more important in terms of gaining time.

[raymondu999]

There´s a balance of course. What i´m saying is corner entry is not anywhere near as important as corner exit.

There is a hell of a lot of time to be gained on entry. Why do you think people brake late and trail brake? Trail brake has nothing to do with a fast exit. In fact a prolific trail braker would probably exit slightly slower.

[NathanOlder]

Oversteer is easily seen from outside the car, understeer isnt unless its extreme, id say its something you feel more than see.


If your fast into and through a corner. The exit speed comes with it. If you get the car turning in and holding the apex, the Exit will be fast also. So in my opinion, its more important to work on turn in and mid corner speeds than traction on corner exit.

[Nando]

- If your corner entry sucks your speed through the corner will suck.

How long is a corner in time? let´s take T1 Australia.
3 tenths from entry to Apex?

- If you have oversteer on the exit you'll not get out of corners fast.

How long is the exit of the corner PLUS the long straight?
A few seconds right?

Now do your math and you will see for yourself.

- If you can't put traction down your straight line speed will suck.

This is in direct relation to corner exit.

[eurocentric]

Why isn't every corner taken with a very late apex?

There´s a balance of course. What i´m saying is corner entry is not anywhere near as important as corner exit.

Bad at corner entry - you lose time until you hit the throttle.

Bad at corner exit - you lose time out of the corner and all the way to the next braking zone.

I´m sorry but this is THE most basic information you get when learning how to go fast around a track.

Slow in, fast out. Because fast out is more important in terms of gaining time.

Have you ever driven any type of car on a track, if so you would know why corner speed is important all the way through, not just the exit speed, if you are carrying more through it's entirity then you will be quicker than slow in fast out, simple really.

[Nando]

There´s a balance of course. What i´m saying is corner entry is not anywhere near as important as corner exit.

There is a hell of a lot of time to be gained on entry. Why do you think people brake late and trail brake? Trail brake has nothing to do with a fast exit. In fact a prolific trail braker would probably exit slightly slower.

You trailbrake to the apex and no more.

Again, Corner entry to apex is a considerable less time then corner exit plus the straight.

Corner exit is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more important then corner entry.

[beelsebob]

Why isn't every corner taken with a very late apex?

There´s a balance of course. What i´m saying is corner entry is not anywhere near as important as corner exit.

Bad at corner entry - you lose time until you hit the throttle.

No, you lose time all the way to the next braking zone. If you're doing 50 at the apex, and should be doing 60, you'll be doing 70 at the exit, and should be doing 80, and you'll be doing 180 at the next corner when you should be doing 185*.

* Actual numbers made up on the spot – but you get the point.

[Nando]

Have you ever driven any type of car on a track, if so you would know why corner speed is important all the way through, not just the exit speed, if you are carrying more through it's entirity then you will be quicker than slow in fast out, simple really.

I see now that you have lost all of your capability to comprehend anything i say.

[NathanOlder]

Why isn't every corner taken with a very late apex?

There´s a balance of course. What i´m saying is corner entry is not anywhere near as important as corner exit.

Bad at corner entry - you lose time until you hit the throttle.

Bad at corner exit - you lose time out of the corner and all the way to the next braking zone.

I´m sorry but this is THE most basic information you get when learning how to go fast around a track.

Slow in, fast out. Because fast out is more important in terms of gaining time.

If your slow through a corner, your slow all the way down the next straight!