Malaysian GP 2012 - Sepang International Circuit

[Moanlower]

Great GP! Why not start another thread about conspiracies and let the dead horse die?

I want to see racing next time and not match fixing if you'll excuse me.

It's not good being naive but being that paranoia.. man, I feel sorry for you. Get well soon.

[Shrieker]

Great race overall. Shame to see McLaren ruin Hamilton's pit stop and HRT effectively take out Button.

Wow.

Just Wow.

Button tripped on a f...ng HRT and you come and say that here ?

Had Lewis done that people would be mocking him in any way possible. When Button does it it's HRT's fault.

Button did a BAD mistake which ruined his race, as much as I don't like him he said LIKE A MAN that the mistake was his. I agree with the part that HRT are too slow, but it's not their fault when someone comes and hits them from behind when they've been cleared to race.

It's not good being naive but being that paranoia.. man, I feel sorry for you. Get well soon.

From another forum:

A lot of the responses shooting down the theory (and, that’s all it is at this time) very much remind me of the responses around the time of ‘Crashgate’ in Singapore…

“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” says the signature of a fellow forum member here. If you believe there isn't the slightest possibility that it could've taken place, then I leave it to you to decide in which category you happen to belong in.

“Odd how with less than 10 laps left, Sauber tell Perez over the radio that Alonsos tyres are older than his (a bit of a come-on..?), Perez then closes within a second of Alonso, only to be told to hold ‘we need this position…’”

Sounds to me a team and a driver who wanted to race and win were reigned in by an unknown source.

[GrizzleBoy]

Great race overall. Shame to see McLaren ruin Hamilton's pit stop and HRT effectively take out Button.

Wow.

Just Wow.

Button tripped on a f...ng HRT and you come and say that here ?

Had Lewis done that people would be mocking him in any way possible. When Button does it it's HRT's fault.

Button did a BAD mistake which ruined his race, as much as I don't like him he said LIKE A MAN that the mistake was his. I agree with the part that HRT are too slow, but it's not their fault when someone comes and hits them from behind when they've been cleared to race.

I was going to reply to him, but you've pretty much said all that needs saying.

[GrizzleBoy]

Alonso would not have been ahead at the stops had Mclaren did a good job. They need to stop giving Button priority everytime; all in the name of not hurting his feelings. Or maybe he's the one who has some kind of mind control over them.

mclanen simply need to put their eggs in the leading drivers basket. Last race Hamilton wanted to pit, he said the tyres were going off, they told him to stay out, as button didn't pit as yet. This cost him a spot to Vettel. This time around Button is the one radioing in and they let him pit. Somethings going on with that team and it's engineers.
Anyhow, entertaining race, and glad to see so many different cars in the points.

First stop:

-Button gets first dibs on the wet tyres even though Hamilton is leading.
-rear jack man spend about 2 seconds just trying to get the jack under Hamiltons car
-which means Hamilton waits even longer for other cars to pass
-which means Hamilton emerges from the pits behind Button



Second stop:

-Button gets first dibs on the slicks, even though Hamilton is in front
-they spend about four seconds removing some tape from his brake ducts


Not bad McLaren.

Not bad.

First stop:

-Button gets first dibs on the wet tyres even though Hamilton is leading.
-rear jack man spend about 2 seconds just trying to get the jack under Hamiltons car
-which means Hamilton waits even longer for other cars to pass
-which means Hamilton emerges from the pits behind Button

I thought Hamilton was still leading after the first stop.

He was

No he wasn't.

Button pits lap 14 for new inters.

Hamilton pits lap 15 for new inters. Rear jack man suddenly forgets how to use his jack for a few seconds, Hamilton therefore has to wait a few more seconds for other cars before he gets released.

He emerges from the pit lane behind Button.

Or was that the second

[raymondu999]

Nope

That's just your take on it.

First stop:

-Button gets first dibs on the wet tyres even though Hamilton is leading.
-rear jack man spend about 2 seconds just trying to get the jack under Hamiltons car
-which means Hamilton waits even longer for other cars to pass
-which means Hamilton emerges from the pits behind Button

I thought Hamilton was still leading after the first stop.

He was

No he wasn't.

Button pits lap 14 for new inters.

Hamilton pits lap 15 for new inters. Rear jack man suddenly forgets how to use his jack for a few seconds, Hamilton therefore has to wait a few more seconds for other cars before he gets released.

He emerges from the pit lane behind Button.

What race were you watching?

The one where the FIRST STOPS for Button and Hamilton were on Laps 4 and 5.

[GrizzleBoy]

See above edit

[raymondu999]

Hence - check facts before you go and ridicule people with questions like "what race were you watching?"

[Shrieker]

I am late. But Grizzle I had already explained that here mate
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=12254&p=328328#p328328

[GrizzleBoy]

Hence - check facts before you go and ridicule people with questions like "what race were you watching?"

I did. Just too late.

I edited my post before you posted your reply

However, that is hardly just "my take" of what happened with Karthikeyan.

Watch the video. Everything I mentioned is there.

Vettel goes aggressive on the curbs at 6 seconds, spins his wheels at 7 during acceleration and has his nose pointing towards the inside of the next turn at 8 seconds, closing in towards the edge of the track.

His proximity to the edge of the track does not stay the same as you say it does.

I also linked "my take" with Karthikeyans comments on the race afterwards.

He mentions that he got out of shape when he got onto the curbs to let two other cars past just moments before. You can see it in the video. It's not "my take", it's what actually happened. It's there in the video and Karthikeyan mentioned it in his post race interview.

[raymondu999]

It's your take of what happened; and I'm not going to bother arguing about that. Nothing good nor useful ever comes out of an internet argument.

Our views don't even matter. Only the view of the stewards matter.

[andartop]

@ Shrieker

Perez talked about it in the press conference. He had already started losing front grip as he had to push quite hard to close the gap. As he was getting closer to Alonso he was losing DF. He went wide on a damp kerb, in a fairly fast section of the track where you have to brake under turning in. He was lucky he didn't get stuck in the gravel and throw away second.

Let's say it was indeed "race fixing". Could you give us one single reason why Perez would have to risk getting stuck in the gravel, throwing away the best ever race finish for Sauber and his career best, in order to "fake it"? Why not do it on a slow and safer corner?

[WhiteBlue]

2012 Sporting regulations §20.5

20.5 As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not allow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate that he must allow the following driver to overtake.

The sporting regulations are very clear. A driver to be lapped has to allow the other driver past at the first available opportunity. The lapping driver has the explicit right to pass. The only excuse is not seeing the car or erroneously getting involved in an incident due to misinterpretation of the other drivers intentions. A 25m wide hairpin is certainly an opportunity and there is no excuse if the blue light was on in NK's cockpit.

In the Vettel accident the case is even clearer. The stewards made the right call and one has to suspect that the Vettel detrimentors just ignore the regulation. They will know for themselves why. But their criticism in the light of the regulation is neither reasonable nor adequate IMO.

[MuseF1]

Narain didnty get any chance to move for the blue flag Vettel was on him so fast if you look at Vettel's onboard video

[GrizzleBoy]

It's your take of what happened; and I'm not going to bother arguing about that. Nothing good nor useful ever comes out of an internet argument.

Our views don't even matter. Only the view of the stewards matter.

Cop out.

You said that Vettel was holding a constant distance from the edge of the track.

The very video you used as evidence clearly shows he wasn't.

I guess we can leave it there.

2012 Sporting regulations §20.5

20.5 As soon as a car is caught by another car which is about to lap it during the race the driver must allow the faster driver past at the first available opportunity. If the driver who has been caught does not allow the faster driver past, waved blue flags will be shown to indicate that he must allow the following driver to overtake.

The sporting regulations are very clear. A driver to be lapped has to allow the other driver past at the first available opportunity. The lapping driver has the explicit right to pass. The only excuse is not seeing the car or erroneously getting involved in an incident due to misinterpretation of the other drivers intentions. A 25m wide hairpin is certainly an opportunity and there is no excuse if the blue light was on in NK's cockpit.

In the Vettel accident the case is even clearer. The stewards made the right call and one has to suspect that the Vettel detrimentors just ignore the regulation. They will know for themselves why. But their criticism in the light of the regulation is neither reasonable nor adequate IMO.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that Karthikeyan went on the curbs and almost lost control during the series of turns to let two cars past just seconds before Vettel saw that opportunity and tried to rocket past.

Karthikeyan was indeed letting cars through.

Infact, if Karthikeyan was truly this a-hole that people are making him out to be, he wouldn't have gone off track in the name of blue flags and allowed Vettel to get so close to him on the exit of the turn in the first place.

If you watch Vettels onboard cam, Karthikeyans mirrors weren't even facing in his direction (Karthikeyan basically heading straight out of the exit) while Vettel was still making the turn.

Vettel did not emerge from the turn in a straight line, he came out in a diagonal line across the track, further decreasing the opportunity for Karthikeyan to see him in his mirrors.

It wasn't a straight up side to side move where he was big in Karthikeyans mirrors, nor was it a situation where Karthikeyan knew Vettel was trying to pass him for ages and was looking out for him.

It was over as quickly as it began and it took wrong moves by both parties to happen imo.

[Ray]

Great race overall. Shame to see McLaren ruin Hamilton's pit stop and HRT effectively take out Button.

Wow.

Just Wow.

Button tripped on a f...ng HRT and you come and say that here ?

Had Lewis done that people would be mocking him in any way possible. When Button does it it's HRT's fault.

Button did a BAD mistake which ruined his race, as much as I don't like him he said LIKE A MAN that the mistake was his. I agree with the part that HRT are too slow, but it's not their fault when someone comes and hits them from behind when they've been cleared to race.

I don't think Button didn't make a huge mistake. He came in too hot and collided with the HRT. That is a fact. Yes, they were fighting for position and Button hit the HRT. What I meant was that the HRT shouldn't be on the track, they are just too slow. I didn't see it as Button didn't eff up royally, I meant that the HRTs being so slow they shouldn't have even been allowed to race. And had the same happened to Lewis I would have said the same thing. The HRT cars are blatantly too slow and shouldn't be allowed to race. I think one of them was 8 seconds of the leader in Q1. That is inexcusable. End of story. 107% rule or not, that is dangerously slow and even more so in the wet.

You're letting your love of Lewis influence your opinion. Same as others that are biased. Fact is, he's been outraced and outscored by Button since last season. Should Lewis have gotten first pick on stops? I don't know, I'm not McLaren and I'm not in charge. I can't make that decision and neither can you. People like you come here to cry foul and throw up your ridiculous conspiracies that every time Lewis doesn't smoke his teammate outright that they hate him. YOU are the problem, not me. YOU are always crying about Lewis getting screwed by McLaren. What sense does it make for them to --- over Lewis? That is an honest question. How can you justify your accusations? If McLaren were actively screwing Lewis don't you think he's smart enough to see that? Do you think so little of your hero that you believe yourself to be smarter and more aware of what's going on? Really? And you come here an accuse me? EVERY time Lewis is beaten, EVERY time something doesn't work out in his favor and his alone you and others come here an bleat about how McLaren hate him. Get over yourself, you aren't in the team, you aren't Lewis and you have no authority to lay accusations on them. If what you say is true, he would be out of McLaren at first chance but he's not. So quit crying. Lewis has manned up and got one with last season and so should you.

EDIT: Just to clarify, I don't hate McLaren despite my avatar. I have massive respect for Ron Dennis and all of McLaren, I just thought it was funny. Especially the picture of Ron, I've never seen a picture of him with that expression before. I've found a much funnier avatar but I'm not sure Tomba would approve even though it is "racing related" as he put it.