2012 European GP - Valencia

[Mr Alcatraz]

I guess Alonso passed 13 cars,

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WusawkWX8E[/youtube]

which is weird because he went from 11th to 1st

[beelsebob]

Can we also deduce from this GP that McLaren has worse tyre management than Ferrari? Hamilton's tyres were absolutely dead 2 laps from the end while Alonso comfortably finished, although they claimed there was "not much left".

I don't think you can conclude that from one GP, mostly because tyre management depends almost entirely on temperatures... However, the general trend seems to be that Ferrari's tyres hang on better than McLaren's.

[Redragon]

He could only have avoided the situation by backing out of the fight completely and simply letting Maldonado past. Once you start doing that you're giving a green light to all the drivers to just dive up the inside expecting you to get out of the way. You cannot do that and expect to be a top racing driver and long term you increase the risk of collision as drivers get more and more ambitious in passing you expecting you to be the one to back out of it.

Well, if I recall well it is what Hamilton was expecting last year. I think both drivers had to be blame in this case. Also, they have damaged themsels to score good points

All Lewis did was defend his position and he actually won the racing line back through the corner. Maldonado wasn't even on track, yet you feel he might have had a right of way??

I am not saying is not Maldonado fault, but he had two options run over the kerbs and maybe damage his car or rejoing the track turning left, and he decided for the second, I don't think it was his intention to crash with Hamilton, but I think and that it is my point of view, Hamilton should have left a bit of space and show some maturity as he has been showing this year, and probably both would have get good points at the end. 75% Maldonado fault for deciding in fractions of a second to rejoin the track as he did. 25% Hamilton fault for not leaving a bit of space and finish the race

[Kiril Varbanov]

Dear me, I just noticed the podium ... I was a bit busy in the Sunday afternoon, but this was all Ferrari podium ... ex and current drivers

[cirrusflyer]

Anyone knows a website with the laptimes from the drivers for all 57 laps of the race?

thx

You could try : http://en.mclarenf-1.com/

European GP : http://en.mclarenf-1.com/index.php?page=results&gp=871

[zyphro]

We should applaud the team.

For the first time, since when?, the strategy was genius. If the SC had came out, Schumacher would've been right in there for the win.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Am sick to my back teeth of the immature name calling on Maldonado - grow the f.ck up you guys. No need at all. He is impulsive, he made a badly judged return to the track but I also feel that Lewis needed not to be fighing so hard. As someone posted earlier - know when to give up.

And the two times Maldonado has been caught intentionally crashing his car in to other drivers? Are we just meant to forget about those. This isn't just about Valencia. This is about a driver that is clearly dangerous, and seems to think he can just drive his car in to other people, and they have to get out of the way. Valencia he jumped the curb and that was most likely the cause of the contact, but what was he doing driving across the curb in the first place!? He should have conceded when Hamilton won the racing line, he seemed to think Hamilton should have moved aside and let him 'drive side-by-side'...

Hamilton's tyres were gone, and it was only a matter of time, and perhaps he should have just let Maldonado go. BUT this does not make it any less Maldonado's fault. You can't just throw your car at other drivers and expect them to just evaporate.

I think this guy has got some real serious issues. I mean just look at Canada when he hit the wall, he kept his foot flat on the accelerator.

If Yuji Ide got his super license revoked for a few spins, I think there is more than enough evidence to revoke Maldonado's.

[myurr]

Can we also deduce from this GP that McLaren has worse tyre management than Ferrari? Hamilton's tyres were absolutely dead 2 laps from the end while Alonso comfortably finished, although they claimed there was "not much left".

I don't think you can conclude that from one GP, mostly because tyre management depends almost entirely on temperatures... However, the general trend seems to be that Ferrari's tyres hang on better than McLaren's.

But in Canada Hamilton had better tyre life than Vettel, and here it was completely reversed. It's all about getting the setup just right, and in Valencia as with Bahrain McLaren just got it wrong. It seems they do not have a good setup for when the temperatures are very high.

[beelsebob]

Can we also deduce from this GP that McLaren has worse tyre management than Ferrari? Hamilton's tyres were absolutely dead 2 laps from the end while Alonso comfortably finished, although they claimed there was "not much left".

I don't think you can conclude that from one GP, mostly because tyre management depends almost entirely on temperatures... However, the general trend seems to be that Ferrari's tyres hang on better than McLaren's.

But in Canada Hamilton had better tyre life than Vettel, and here it was completely reversed. It's all about getting the setup just right, and in Valencia as with Bahrain McLaren just got it wrong. It seems they do not have a good setup for when the temperatures are very high.

Quite – exactly my point in fact – you can't deduce that the car is improved from the fact that they were faster here... They were similarly faster in Bahrain, because again – high temperatures, and traction track.

[Chuckjr]

Hamilton is a true racer so he never gives positions away without a fight.

 
Ok wait.

So a driver is not as much of a racer if they do let cars pass when they are 3-5 sec per lap slower and know they cannot keep faster cars behind for another lap thus placing themselves in precarious positions which will most likely cost them points!!?? What kind of logic is that? If Alonso had thought that way, he most likely would have taken zero points home from Canada. Alonso knew he was toast there, swallowed his pride, and allowed the passes and ensured points which, for my money, is the more true racer-know your limits and stay within them. 

Does allowing folks to pass somehow mean Alonso is less of a "true" racing driver? If so, then that logic, IMO, is on the same lines as saying people who like this sort of racing this year have only been watching F1 since 2000.  Whatever.  

What the hell is the problem with team Macca? Seriously. They have poor leadership / management, make poor racing decisions, are too slow in development pace, and are severely jeopardizing Lewis' career. Its like watching a dysfunctional family at work--everyone makes everyone else worse. They should seriously consider bringing back Ron. And why the heck did they hire Michaels? He was a proven loser at Williams and is now a proven loser at Macca. Who is making such poor management decisions? Whitmarsh? Was it Michaels call to use the faulty, esoteric, unproven front jack?

I would really think hard before signing with them again if I were Ham. 

On Hamilton, I do think he should have been wise enough to let Maldonado past, like Alonso did at the end of the Canadian GP. There's no point in fighting a car that's 3 seconds a lap faster. I still believe Maldonado was at fault, but Hamilton's ruthless defence cost him his own points as well.

+1

[GrizzleBoy]

Since when was it a racing offence/unacceptable to not let a guy pass you because he's faster?

Grosjean was much faster during the first stint, but he had to work to get by and he did it in the end. It was better for the fans to see that fight.

Raikkonen was faster when Lewis' tyres started falling off, but he had to work to get by and he did it in the end. It was better for the fans to see that fight.

Maldonado was massively faster and by that time you could LITERALLY see there was barely any tyre left on Lewis' car. The back end was looking like a rally car. Its a wonder how he got traction on so many corners. He had even less work to do to try and get by and the only thing he could do was T-bone the car to get it out of the way.

Long story short, we actually saw racing. Not just driving on a formality, but actual racing and fighting for position.

I'm sure both Grosjean and Raikkonen felt much more satisfied knowing they got past Lewis fighting them all he could than simply sliding by him on better tyres with their wings open and I'm sure Maldonado feels even worse knowing he failed to get past a car that was vastly inferior to his in almost every way through his own inability.

[MuseF1]

Accidentally posted this in the maldonado thread. did anybody see three marshalls on track pushing vettels car away without yellow flags. im pretty sure i seen a green flag next to them as they pushed his car

[Ray]

The problem with the Lewis/Maldonado incident is that for some reason it's deemed acceptable to drive as though someone alongside you on the outside doesn't exist. Lewis had every right to defend his position, but I don't understand why it's accepted that he can drive the corner exit like Maldonado didn't exist on track. Driving a normal racing line with someone on your outside is basically forcing them off track intentionally. It doesn't matter who is in that situation, what cars or involded, teammates or no, or what position is being fought over. Driving people off the track because it's "your" corner because you are on the inside is dangerous. I don't think Lewis was at fault or Maldonado, I think it's a completely stupid and selfish way to drive and it shouldn't be allowed. If two cars enter a corner even, then the driver on the inside should not be allowed to drive off the corner like the other guy doesn't exist.

At track like Valencia is dangerous because the walls are so close, and where the walls aren't there are big speed bumps that can easily launch a car. Maldonado was forced into a situation where he shouldn't have been put and he ran the risk of being shoved directly into those speed bumps. I don't think Lewis or Maldonado were malicious or wrong, I think it being acceptable to basically drive someone off track is the problem. Maybe it comes from my early racing days on ovals. You shove someone around like that on an oval, and you're gonna kill someone. The risk is less on a road course, but it's still no less potentially deadly. Just because Lewis was on the inside doesn't mean he can just drive wide like Maldonado didn't exist I don't think. It takes two to tango and they both caused the accident in my eyes.

McLaren needs to get their --- together though. Two jack failures is unacceptable. I'm going to go out on a limb and blame the majority of McLarens problems on Sam Michael. He left Williams in shambles with a crap car and crap performance overall, and now that he's at McLaren they are getting worse every race. Williams? Getting better all the time. I've never though he was a very good technical person and it looks like I'm right.

[Mr Alcatraz]

Accidentally posted this in the maldonado thread. did anybody see three marshalls on track pushing vettels car away without yellow flags. im pretty sure i seen a green flag next to them as they pushed his car

Yes, heroic Spaniards (or idiots) putting their lives on the line (and that of the field) to keep Alonso's gap by getting the car off the track before Charlie Brown could send out the safety car.
The whole country of Spain cheated in this race.
Plus Ferrari has a lot of nerve speaking to a Spaniard in Italian over the radio.
The whole country of Italy cheated as well.

[Chuckjr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnRiNrmr ... ata_player

This good driver needs a better manager that can coach him to understand sometimes you concede victory (or loser positions in this case) to win the war.