2012 German GP - Hockenheim

[zeph]

really fed up with people that keep saying Alonso doesn't have a good car, or one of the best.

It is quite clearly one of the best cars in the field now, if not the best. Pole at silverstone in the wet where you need downforce, pole again and controlled the race, against a much improved mclaren and a Redbull which dominated Valencia and won Silverstone - and that was only because ferrari got the tyre strategy wrong.

its been consistent, ultra reliable, and it seems to work in whatever temperature - so it quite clearly IS a brilliant car now, and has been for the last 3-4 races.

While it has been consistent and reliable, it is certainly not all that fast. I think that's what people are saying. Like you said, both poles done in the wet, I don't remember Silverstone qualifying, but yesterday was just a matter of changing tires at the right time.

Today they did everything right, and Alonso surely controlled the race. But it was clear his pace did not match Button's or Vettel's. They all said so after the race, btw.

[cheapracer]

really fed up with people that keep saying Alonso doesn't have a good car, or one of the best.

While it has been consistent and reliable, it is certainly not all that fast.

Alonso got pole and quite easily led on a technical track even with Button and Vettle getting DRS behind so to say it's not fast is not looking at the facts in hand.

Today they did everything right, and Alonso surely controlled the race. But it was clear his pace did not match Button's or Vettel's. They all said so after the race, btw.

The second half of the track the Ferrari pulled time every lap, Button and Vettle were never in a position to challenge at turn 1 or 2 ever during the race and only ever caught up under DRS but again, never drew alongside to challenge into the hairpin. I'm sure there's 20 other drivers out there who would like that lack of pace under them.

As for Vettle's penalty, sure it's technically true that passing while on the wrong side of a white line is illegal but to determine an outside pass on a painted surface as "gaining an advantage" is ridiculous and I'm not sure I've seen it applied before.

Imagine the protests at Spa (re; Turn 1) in the future.

[RB7ate9]

Anyway, someone just posted that the Bulls pace in the dry wasn't too convincing, so let's hope FA wins and we get schumi/kimi plus a Mclaren on the podium.

Ask and ye have received.

[foxmulder_ms]

I am really impressed with Mclaren. After all those mistakes finally good team work and the upgrades really worked. They had the fastest car in my opinion but when Alonso is in front it is hard to pass him Hamilton's move what gave Button the second place, funny...

We have been talking about Mclaren's mistakes but another team which keeps making mistakes is Lotus. Almost in every race Raikonen had some thing went wrong.

Good race overall, I enjoyed.

[raymondu999]

Lotus seems destined to be 2012's nearly-men. As of right now I don't think they have what it takes to win a race. When they have good race pace it seems generally at a place where they qualify bad and can't overtake. When they're in a good position (a la Bahrain) they squander it through strategy.

[foxmulder_ms]

As for Vettle's penalty, sure it's technically true that passing while on the wrong side of a white line is illegal but to determine an outside pass on a painted surface as "gaining an advantage" is ridiculous and I'm not sure I've seen it applied before.

He absolutely gained advantage. Didn't you see the crazy traction he got? He was behind Button then suddenly gains traction on that surface. Clear advantage. It cannot be clearer than that.

[raymondu999]

To be fair, we cannot isolate - isolate being the key word here - that added traction to Vettel's line.

[Cam]

Vettel did what he could to make a clean pass on a good driver in a great car. Something in F1 that people have complained about for years that doesn't happen enough. He managed a clean overtake without doing a 'Maldonado'. Rule or no rule, they just killed some of the best overtaking moves we'll never see. Thanks. Now I have one less way of convincing people to see the 'spectacle'.

*sigh*

[Hail22]

Vettel did what he could to make a clean pass on a good driver in a great car. Something in F1 that people have complained about for years that doesn't happen enough. He managed a clean overtake without doing a 'Maldonado'. Rule or no rule, they just killed some of the best overtaking moves we'll never see. Thanks. Now I have one less way of convincing people to see the 'spectacle'.

*sigh*

You're kidding right?

That was by far not some of the "best" overtaking ever seen...I'm sorry but Raikkonen had spectacular overtakes, as did Hamilton, Ricciardo, Perez but by far Vettel wasn't one of them.

Good calm minds between both Hamilton and Grosjean at Valencia:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6gvIMIqA1w[/youtube]

Alonso on Grosjean at Valencia:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4I1ff5-eBEE[/youtube]

Vettels overtake wasn't good...nor even a spectacle...in all honesty he broke the rules...simple as that...

[raymondu999]

What about the fact that Vettel was constantly using the run off areas as a part of the track lap after lap?

It wasn't just that one time. He was "going wide" almost every opportunity and was gaining time all the while.

I don't think it was helping him actually. The kerbing in Hockenheim is either quite high, or has astro - and if you run wide on exit kerbs like that it's like running over a big bump, or losing control. Point being I don't think he was running wide on exits on purpose to gain time - I think he was just driving ragged really.

[Cam]

@Hail22: You missed my point. I didn't claim Vettels move was 'great'. I stated that this new rule will kill any further 'remarkable' overtaking moves. I could list off dozens of great moves that have gone onto grass or off the track in some way for them to be completed. Awesome stuff which showed balls and courage and certainly we bring up when talking about the heroes and great moments.

This new rule will stop that. And even if the move goes offline slightly by accident, the driver will be penalised for 'having a go'. I think there is a distinction between a great move that runs wide and 'Maldonado'.

We want to encourage overtaking, not trying to put doubt in drivers mind incase they run a tyre wide.

I stand by my *sigh*

[Jackuar]

Post-race Interview snippet from Alonso....

"..... All I have to do is think about driving and helping the team. I always want to give 100% and work day and night towards this goal. I don’t want anyone to come to Hungary better prepared than me, physically or mentally or more motivated than me and..... "

Wow.... That is one very strong statement from Alonso... He really is on Mission Impossible - 5.. To win the WDC with a bad car to start with.... Nice to see that the team behind him is responding and backing up his determination so well...

If only Massa had given a bit more, the WCC would have been a lot more closer.... (SIGH)

[mx_tifoso]

Axisofoversteer has a good article on the incident between Button and Vettel. Video and a pics are included.


And imagine if while Vettel was trying to get past Hamilton this happened;
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZwyB3newlg[/youtube]

[stefan_]

Hamilton was not happy when lapped Barrichello was overtaking him using DRS in Abu Dhabi last year, so I have mixed feelings about his decision to overtake to unlap himself.

@mx_tifoso - that looks more like Maldonado trying to overtake

[raymondu999]

Hamilton was not happy when lapped Barrichello was overtaking him using DRS in Abu Dhabi last year, so I have mixed feelings about his decision to overtake to unlap himself.

Yeah that's what it reminded me of. Hamilton had the good fortune of the second DRS zone though. As he went through the second zone you could see him gesturing towards Barrichello in a sort of "What the hell?" fashion, before then pointing a finger up to tell Barichello he was in P1 (index finger, a la Vettel celebration. Not the middle finger)