2012 Korean GP - Yeong-Am

[beelsebob]

Out of interest, why in the top data is there no 2010? Previous winners etc.?

I think Ferrari and Alonso will be closer this weekend, and I think McLaren's, rather odd, sudden dip in form will be a one race thing. Let's not forget we all went away from Valencia thinking RB had suddenly regained 2011 superiority, only for them to look pretty equal with Alonso at the next race.

So whilst I agree RB will be strong, I don't think it'll be like last year.

I certainly didn't come away from Valencia thinking that... I came away from Valencia thinking "red bull has shown that they have a great car at tractiony, lowish speed, hot tracks", which they did. Unfortunately, I came away from Japan thinking "wow, RedBull have really found something good on their car, it's the clear best now"

[f1316]

Out of interest, why in the top data is there no 2010? Previous winners etc.?

I think Ferrari and Alonso will be closer this weekend, and I think McLaren's, rather odd, sudden dip in form will be a one race thing. Let's not forget we all went away from Valencia thinking RB had suddenly regained 2011 superiority, only for them to look pretty equal with Alonso at the next race.

So whilst I agree RB will be strong, I don't think it'll be like last year.

I certainly didn't come away from Valencia thinking that... I came away from Valencia thinking "red bull has shown that they have a great car at tractiony, lowish speed, hot tracks", which they did. Unfortunately, I came away from Japan thinking "wow, RedBull have really found something good on their car, it's the clear best now"

Ok, well put it this way, I read several articles from people like Jaime Alguersuari and Andrew Benson saying that. The BBC are very quick to start drawing conclusions, but there were certainly a lot of "pundits" predicting this after Valencia - the hole that had been blocked up was pointed at by Martin Brundle as being some sort of key.

Nevertheless, I still don't see why McLaren can be fastest at Hungary, Belgium Singapore and Monza and suddenly be off the pace the way they were. It wasn't just that the RB was strong, but McLaren was also comparitively weak.

Considering Massa's pace and relative general speed against his team-mate, I think there's every reason to believe Alonso would have been a much closer second. Not as fast as Vettel but not a mile off his pace. He showed good pace there in the last two years, so I see him being in contention.

[raymondu999]

Alonso was weaker than Massa all weekend until Massa couldn't switch on his option tyres in the last Q2 run. Barring team orders, I'm not sure that Alonso would've outperformed Massa that weekend.

Also, were McLaren weak? They qualified 2nd best team with Jenson, and pace-wise probably should have finished 3rd.

[beelsebob]

Out of interest, why in the top data is there no 2010? Previous winners etc.?

I think Ferrari and Alonso will be closer this weekend, and I think McLaren's, rather odd, sudden dip in form will be a one race thing. Let's not forget we all went away from Valencia thinking RB had suddenly regained 2011 superiority, only for them to look pretty equal with Alonso at the next race.

So whilst I agree RB will be strong, I don't think it'll be like last year.

I certainly didn't come away from Valencia thinking that... I came away from Valencia thinking "red bull has shown that they have a great car at tractiony, lowish speed, hot tracks", which they did. Unfortunately, I came away from Japan thinking "wow, RedBull have really found something good on their car, it's the clear best now"

Ok, well put it this way, I read several articles from people like Jaime Alguersuari and Andrew Benson saying that. The BBC are very quick to start drawing conclusions, but there were certainly a lot of "pundits" predicting this after Valencia - the hole that had been blocked up was pointed at by Martin Brundle as being some sort of key.

Nevertheless, I still don't see why McLaren can be fastest at Hungary, Belgium Singapore and Monza and suddenly be off the pace the way they were. It wasn't just that the RB was strong, but McLaren was also comparitively weak.

Considering Massa's pace and relative general speed against his team-mate, I think there's every reason to believe Alonso would have been a much closer second. Not as fast as Vettel but not a mile off his pace. He showed good pace there in the last two years, so I see him being in contention.

Agreed, McLaren's pace at Japan was certainly an outlier, and almost certainly due to poor setup. I'd expect the future races to be somewhat similar to Singapore – McLaren and RedBull pretty evenly matched at the top, and the others a little way behind... But I don't think we're going to get back to the likes of Italy style domination.

[FlYiNgIcEmAn]

‏@tgruener
#F1 Spent monday in Tokyo. Looking forward to #Korea. You can expect big tech updates by Red Bull, Lotus & Ferrari.

Can't wait until friday, I'm so excited for this GP.

[raymondu999]

Agreed, McLaren's pace at Japan was certainly an outlier, and almost certainly due to poor setup. I'd expect the future races to be somewhat similar to Singapore – McLaren and RedBull pretty evenly matched at the top, and the others a little way behind... But I don't think we're going to get back to the likes of Italy style domination.

I don't think Suzuka was an outlier at all - I think Button had good pace, just that the Suzuka layout seemed to prefer the RB8 over the McLaren. Hamilton had bad pace, but as he said, he was going for increased stability in the Esses, went too far, and killed his laptime with understeer instead.

Button IMO had podium pace, if not better than Massa, at least better than Kobayashi, just that the track layout isn't the most overtake-friendly.

But I agree, the general case should be the RBR and McL on roughly equal terms, except when layout comes in the equation.

The question is, where will the Ferrari fit in the pecking order over the final stretch?

[beelsebob]

Agreed, McLaren's pace at Japan was certainly an outlier, and almost certainly due to poor setup. I'd expect the future races to be somewhat similar to Singapore – McLaren and RedBull pretty evenly matched at the top, and the others a little way behind... But I don't think we're going to get back to the likes of Italy style domination.

I don't think Suzuka was an outlier at all - I think Button had good pace, just that the Suzuka layout seemed to prefer the RB8 over the McLaren. Hamilton had bad pace, but as he said, he was going for increased stability in the Esses, went too far, and killed his laptime with understeer instead.

Again, agreed... You'll see if you read what I've been saying that I thought RedBull genuinely gained pace, and will be up front from Singapore onwards, but that I believe Hamilton being down in 8th/5th was to do with poor setup, not the car being inherantly slow.

Button IMO had podium pace, if not better than Massa, at least better than Kobayashi, just that the track layout isn't the most overtake-friendly.

Agreed, he may even have been able to match Vettel's pace, but not beat it.

But I agree, the general case should be the RBR and McL on roughly equal terms, except when layout comes in the equation.

Yep – unfortunately, I suspect Korea's fricking enormous straights, and reliance on downforce in the last sector is going to favour DDRS.

The question is, where will the Ferrari fit in the pecking order over the final stretch?

I would expect roughly where they've been most of the season – just in behind those two.

[WhiteBlue]

any predictions?

I assume that we will not see any substantial new parts from McLaren and Ferrari. So the quali could be:
1. Vettel
2. Webber
3. Hamilton
4. Button
5. Alonso
Webber could once again make a bad start, so there could be a little shake up of the order for the podium:
1. Vettel
2. Hamilton
3. Alonso
4. Button
I'm speculating that Alonso will drag the car higher in the race as he typically did this year.

[f1316]

Button IMO had podium pace, if not better than Massa, at least better than Kobayashi, just that the track layout isn't the most overtake-friendly.

Agreed, he may even have been able to match Vettel's pace, but not beat it.

I don't agree that Button had better pace than Massa. In the first stint, Button was not close to Kobayashi but Massa was consistently in Button's DRS zone. Perhaps this flipped a bit in the last part of the race - the McLaren is better on low fuel than the Ferrari - but I'm also pretty sure Massa had no reason to push, seeing as he was 5s ahead of the Sauber and never going to catch Vettel.

But I think even Button was not entirely happy with the balance of his car, for whatever reason, and this is what explains their relative lack of pace. It seems a temperamental beast, the McLaren, but I think it's unlikely they'll be unable to set it up two weeks in a row.

Massa was on Alonso's pace more than usual, you're right, but over a race distance it has never been the case in the their entire partnership that Massa's been the faster driver. Alonso is better than most at maximising every single lap (rather than one quali lap, where he is maybe a bit behind Hamilton and Vettel) and I'm certain he would have been quicker than Felipe, therefore closer to Vettel, but still 2nd.

I should probably add that Webber would likely have been 2nd without the crash though.

[FrukostScones]

Qualifying:
1.Vettel
2.Alonso (they crash in the first corner available)
3.Hamilton
4.Raikkonen
5.Webber
6.Button
7.Kobayashi
8.Hulkenberg
9.Perez
10.Maldonado
11.DiResta
12.Grosjean
13.Massa
14.MSC
15.Riccardio
16.Rosberg
17.Senna
18.Vergne
19.Kov
20. Glock
21. Pic
22. petrov
23.Hrt1
24.Hrt2

[beelsebob]

Qualifying:
1.Vettel
2.Alonso (they crash in the first corner available)
3.Hamilton
4.Raikkonen
5.Webber
6.Button
7.Kobayashi
8.Hulkenberg
9.Perez
10.Maldonado
11.DiResta
12.Grosjean
13.Massa
14.MSC
15.Riccardio
16.Rosberg
17.Senna
18.Vergne
19.Kov
20. Glock
21. Pic
22. petrov
23.Hrt1
24.Hrt2

If you're right, I want your predictions before future races, that must be worth a lot of cash!

[Steven]

Pat Fry noted that Ferrari have more updates to come in the next races.
Not sure if that includes Korea of course, I'm just mentioning it.

[FrukostScones]

Qualifying:
.......

If you're right, I want your predictions before future races, that must be worth a lot of cash!

We'll see!

I was a bit unsure where to put the Mercedes guys, Massa and Grosjean. But this year it is so tight.

It will be nice and sunny and around 23 Degrees C.

[Nando]

I´ve stopped predicting by brain and instead rely on heart lol.

1. Hamilton
2. Vettel
3. Alonso

1. Hamilton
2. Alonso
3. Vettel

[Hail22]

Pat Fry noted that Ferrari have more updates to come in the next races.
Not sure if that includes Korea of course, I'm just mentioning it.

I believe on Scuderianet there was talk of a revised package for Alonso/Massa for the Korean GP with the Singapore proper to arrive for India.

Now if they're truly bringing a large update for India that could lead to a possibility that some of that packages parts will be on the 2013 car...