2012 Korean GP - Yeong-Am

[RB7ate9]

Red Bull
Sebastian Vettel, P1
Mark Webber, P2
Red Bull owned the race from the start, and once he had taken the lead Vettel never needed to look back. His only issues were a lock-up going into Turn Three on the 35th lap prior to his second pit stop, and the need to nurse his front tyres in the closing laps. Webber was unhappy with his car’s launch from pole position, though generally those who started on the inside, so-called ’dirty’ line seemed to get away better. He was also unhappy not to have been told of Vettel’s tyre problems. The success makes Vettel the favourite to repeat his title successes of 2010 and ’11.

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2 ... 13930.html

Interesting that Webber wasn't told. I'm sure he must have asked about it. I'd like to hear the last 10 or so laps of radio transmissions. He might have gone for it...

[raymondu999]

Mark did say post race he was managing tyres though, and his first two stints were shorter than Sebastian's. Go figure.

Judging from the way Webber was just keeping Alonso at a gap while not really under threat, and not really threatening Sebastian though - I have to say I thought even during the race that Mark was just teasing Alonso to push and destroy his tyres, while Seb played hide and seek.

I think you may have read it the wrong way around - maybe actually Webber wasn't happy that he was told of the tyre trouble because he pushed quite hard toward the end himself (as demonstrated by his fastest lap) and had he known of possible tyre trouble, he wouldn't have.

James Allen saw the big hoo-hah over repeated messages to Vettel as Red Bull lobbying to Pirelli (through pressure) to change its Korea tyre choices for the future.

[CHT]

Red Bull
Sebastian Vettel, P1
Mark Webber, P2
Red Bull owned the race from the start, and once he had taken the lead Vettel never needed to look back. His only issues were a lock-up going into Turn Three on the 35th lap prior to his second pit stop, and the need to nurse his front tyres in the closing laps. Webber was unhappy with his car’s launch from pole position, though generally those who started on the inside, so-called ’dirty’ line seemed to get away better. He was also unhappy not to have been told of Vettel’s tyre problems. The success makes Vettel the favourite to repeat his title successes of 2010 and ’11.

http://www.formula1.com/news/features/2 ... 13930.html

Interesting that Webber wasn't told. I'm sure he must have asked about it. I'd like to hear the last 10 or so laps of radio transmissions. He might have gone for it...

I dont really trust what they say on radio. perhaps it is some kind of farce created by horner to force Vettel not to do something stupid like gunning for fastest lap. or perhaps a script to make vettel boring race more nail biting.



I would like to hear what pirelli has to say about Vettel tires.

[RB7ate9]

Mark did say post race he was managing tyres though, and his first two stints were shorter than Sebastian's. Go figure.

Judging from the way Webber was just keeping Alonso at a gap while not really under threat, and not really threatening Sebastian though - I have to say I thought even during the race that Mark was just teasing Alonso to push and destroy his tyres, while Seb played hide and seek.

I think you may have read it the wrong way around - maybe actually Webber wasn't happy that he was told of the tyre trouble because he pushed quite hard toward the end himself (as demonstrated by his fastest lap) and had he known of possible tyre trouble, he wouldn't have.

James Allen saw the big hoo-hah over repeated messages to Vettel as Red Bull lobbying to Pirelli (through pressure) to change its Korea tyre choices for the future.

I have no doubt that Red Bull's strategy was try and get Alonso to eat up his tires. The ideal scenario (based on the initial grid) was to have Hamilton either force Alonso to keep fighting or have Hamilton behind to keep the pressure up. Stuck between Hamilton and Webber, Alonso would've been a none issue.

As for the interpretation of why he wasn't told, I understand what you are getting at. If he had been told that Vettel's tires were going AS WELL, then Webber might have eased up to prevent reaching that cliff any faster. I am, either way, curious as to why he wasn't told about the issue IF he had asked about it. If he didn't actually inquire, then it's probably more him with hindsight being 20/20.

[RB7ate9]

I dont really trust what they say on radio. perhaps it is some kind of farce created by horner to force Vettel not to do something stupid like gunning for fastest lap. or perhaps a script to make vettel boring race more nail biting.



I would like to hear what pirelli has to say about Vettel tires.

The constant radio chatter was probably to keep Vettel from pushing, what with 10s gap to his teammate, since the team said his tires were getting dicier. The broadcast kept showing that right front, and I saw the edge of the sidewall, but I was unsure of exactly what they were getting worried about.

[raymondu999]

Yeah - I'm more getting at Mark saying after the race "Oh my. Tyres were about to go? WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME!?" kind of thing.

What does intrigue me is that some (Maldonado & Karthikeyan) did the race on a 1-stop - was it so different that 1 set of softs, plus 1 set of supersofts, got some cars (Maldonado/Karthikeyan) to 55 laps, but got others (Webber) to only 32?

[Joie de vivre]

http://www.auto123.com/en/news/f1-helmu ... tid=148687

So duck you all who said, this would be stupid move from ferrari. Even Marko thinks how retarded Ferrari is!

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

Alonso right front tyres was dead, he couldn't go faster. So what's the point to have Massa chasing Webber if Alonso have not the pace ? You could see Alonso tyres back in this thread, it was in very bad shape.

[RB7ate9]

Yeah - I'm more getting at Mark saying after the race "Oh my. Tyres were about to go? WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME!?" kind of thing.

What does intrigue me is that some (Maldonado & Karthikeyan) did the race on a 1-stop - was it so different that 1 set of softs, plus 1 set of supersofts, got some cars (Maldonado/Karthikeyan) to 55 laps, but got others (Webber) to only 32?

I suppose that the pace differential is enough to make the tires last longer. As in, less speed produces less force on the tires. Less aggressive driving produces less wear on the tires. karthikeyan, I can understand making it. Maldonaldo....I don't quite get. Perhaps the Williams was off-pace that badly. It's why Sauber is praised for being good on its tires AND fast enough to make it to podium finishes.

[Lorenzo_Bandini]

http://planet-f1.com/news/3213/8174558/ ... ical-Trick

Had Marko not commeneted on it - I would have beleived that RBR were playing it straight but now it points to them trying to lure Ferrari into a mistake.

Here is my theory - RBR were playing a game of wrong footing Ferrari again by constant moans of "look after your tyres -Seb !" when all they wanted was ferrari to let Massa loose on Webber.
Webber lets Massa past and then up his pace to trap Alonso on 4th.

Interesting theory ? We have seen earlier in this thread that Vettel front tyres was in much more better shape than Alonso's tyres, and when Alonso pickup some pace, Webber was faster too.

Perhaps Red Bull would want to see Massa chasing Webber, to have more cars between Vettel and Alonso. So Ferrari were right to stick with Alonso in front of Massa.

If Massa has overtaken Alonso and then big crash, Safety Car... Ferrari would be doomed, because we know that Red Bull was faster than Massa he had no chance, and then Alonso would be right in front of Raikkonen..

[raymondu999]

Here is my theory - RBR were playing a game of wrong footing Ferrari again by constant moans of "look after your tyres -Seb !" when all they wanted was ferrari to let Massa loose on Webber.
Webber lets Massa past and then up his pace to trap Alonso on 4th.

Interesting theory ?

That is indeed an interesting theory and on the surface looks exquisitely clever. But I'm not convinced. Massa would just lift on the long back straight and let both Alonso and Webber back through.

[dren]

It did seem like the team was doing that to try and get Alonso to push harder, maybe to force him into a mistake?

[FW17]

Korean Grand Prix organisers have announced losses of over $35 million in the third running of the event last month.

The country joined the Formula 1 calendar for the 2010 season, when it lost around $50 million, and this year the operating losses have been 39.4 billion won ($36.4 million).

Korean GP bosses said last year they were seeking renegotiate its GP contract in a bid to keep the event on the calendar following doubts over its future.

The country has a seven-year contract and is scheduled to host the 15th round of the 2013 season in October.

Organisers, however, are confident that the event will be viable in the long run.

"It's hard to say what kind of impact the loss has on next year," Korean race organisers told Reuters.

"Although there are many concerns regarding the operating loss, the loss for a third straight year is only a short-term effect.

"In the long-term the F1 event will bring more benefits to the country. It will not only pave the way for South Korean car industries in the future but also help foster new industries."

How much does it cost to organize an F1 race at a permanent track? Are these losses due to construction cost repayments or something else?

[beelsebob]

How much does it cost to organize an F1 race at a permanent track? Are these losses due to construction cost repayments or something else?

The track pays $55m in fees to Bernie, so that would seem to explain it.

This basically explains why tracks like Spa etc can no longer afford to host events. These tracks are trying to make a profit on the races, and just can't because Bernie's fees have got so high. The fees have got so high because there are currently so many countries willing to take a race as a loss leader to boost tourism. Basically, there's an oversupply of circuits, and an undersupply of dates to host events on, so the fees have got exorbitant.

[FW17]

The track pays $55m in fees to Bernie,

Must be the worst deal done.

European GPs such as Spa would be getting a sweet deal, should be comparable to Silverstone deal.