2012 Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina

[NonNewtonic]

I think they're speculating on safety car ...

The chances of having a safety car in the Yas Marina Circuit is fairly low as they have very wide run off area except if a car is stopped right in the middle of the track

[lukeaar]

I really can't understand why so many of you believe that Red Bull tried to fake a failure... You should all take a look at the FIA notice again, specifically:

"The Stewards accepted the explanation and considered the incident as being a case of force majeure."

I'm sorry, but you can cry foul all you want, but you have to accept the fact that the stewards had access to much more information than you do in your armchair in front of your computer.

My guess is a low-pressure fuel pump failure.

[fenix4life]

I think they're speculating on safety car ...

The chances of having a safety car in the Yas Marina Circuit is fairly low as they have very wide run off area except if a car is stopped right in the middle of the track

Maldonado and Grosjean will do their part and if not they can still do a "stop the car" to Mark Webber

They can always hope for a Safety Car but I think they will try a setup which will allow them to overtake a bit more at the straight.

[siskue2005]

I hope they put a new engine and new gearbox and change the setup for race, then aim for at least 5th place
I have good feeling for todays race, I don't hope for others to crash or have a bad race...I just vettel has a good race
All the best Vettel

[beelsebob]

I really can't understand why so many of you believe that Red Bull tried to fake a failure... You should all take a look at the FIA notice again, specifically:

"The Stewards accepted the explanation and considered the incident as being a case of force majeure."

I'm sorry, but you can cry foul all you want, but you have to accept the fact that the stewards had access to much more information than you do in your armchair in front of your computer.

My guess is a low-pressure fuel pump failure.

My guess is that the "force majeure" was in fact "renault told us to turn the engine off, we had no choice", and that it was then discovered that renault told them to turn it off because there was no fuel.

[myurr]

I really can't understand why so many of you believe that Red Bull tried to fake a failure... You should all take a look at the FIA notice again, specifically:

"The Stewards accepted the explanation and considered the incident as being a case of force majeure."

I'm sorry, but you can cry foul all you want, but you have to accept the fact that the stewards had access to much more information than you do in your armchair in front of your computer.

My guess is a low-pressure fuel pump failure.

The stewards may have accepted the explanation without investigation, given that they couldn't extract enough fuel for the sample and would be punishing them for that regardless.

[beelsebob]

So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?

[CHT]

So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?

why must a RBR part always be illegal instead of being innovative?

anyway here is a nice video showing Sauber F1 fuel tank design.
http://sidepodcast.com/post/sauber-turn-f1-inside-out

[bhall]

Is it just me, or does this...

6.6.4 The sampling procedure must not necessitate starting the engine or the removal of bodywork (other than the cover over any refuelling connector).

...not necessarily mean that the removal of bodywork to obtain a fuel sample is expressly prohibited?

If Red Bull truly has a fuel cell/pump/whatever problem, couldn't they claim that the removal of bodywork isn't ordinarily required to obtain a sample, but their current fuel cell/pump/ whatever problem makes it necessary at this time?

I've got to think I'd argue that point until I was red in the face, especially when confronted with the prospect of a big starting penalty in the middle of a very close Championship. That is, unless for some reason I don't want to remove bodywork to provide a sample, knowing that 6.6.3. seems to require FIA supervision for such a procedure (If an electric pump on board the car cannot be used to remove the fuel an externally connected one may be used provided it is evident that a representative fuel sample is being taken).

What is Red Bull hiding?

[dave34m]

I think they're speculating on safety car ...

The chances of having a safety car in the Yas Marina Circuit is fairly low as they have very wide run off area except if a car is stopped right in the middle of the track

Maldonado and Grosjean will do their part and if not they can still do a "stop the car" to Mark Webber

They can always hope for a Safety Car but I think they will try a setup which will allow them to overtake a bit more at the straight.

Lol, do you really think that that would cause a safety car

[turbof1]

So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?

Nothing: it was completely the decision from Red Bull to do so. When you have malfunctioning fuel systems, and you are starting last anyway, that is a very sensible decision, which brings me to my next point:

I think we have alot of "conspiracy-theory people" around here: it really is too far fetched to think that Red Bull tried to lie its way out of it; the statement of the FIA makes that much more clear: it was force majeure (no, beelsebob: force majeure does not include underfueling as that is within the control of the team!), so something really was going wrong in the car.

[CHT]

So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?

Nothing: it was completely the decision from Red Bull to do so. When you have malfunctioning fuel systems, and you are starting last anyway, that is a very sensible decision, which brings me to my next point:

I think we have alot of "conspiracy-theory people" around here: it really is too far fetched to think that Red Bull tried to lie its way out of it; the statement of the FIA makes that much more clear: it was force majeure (no, beelsebob: force majeure does not include underfueling as that is within the control of the team!), so something really was going wrong in the car.

what is abnormal about Vettel qualifying on sat was when his right rear hit the sidewall and the impact should be enough to cause some damage to a "normal" f1 car. I am not sure if the fuel issue has got something to do with it.

[mzivtins]

Conspiracy people? No surely not, how the hell does a team not know what fuel is in the car... Mclaren came under fire with this, it is pure stupidity... They dont understand why it happened, but it did... i believe what the FIA have ruled... there was not enough fuel in the car and NO mechanical issue that caused it.

If you want proof, just look at the same the with mclaren, both teams conducted themselves VERY differently. And depending on who you are as a person will determine if you trust either one after stunts like this.

Red Bull... are very sneaky.

[piast9]

Do these cars have fuel level sensor in the fuel cell? I doubt it taking into account the complicated shape of the cell itself. If not then the fuel level is calculated basing on the knowledge of how much fuel was at the beginning and how much was used.

Simple failure of putting right amount of fuel at the beginning would cause that the engine guys would see that the fuel pump wasn't working properly because pressure dropped when the computer said that there was still some fuel in the tank. Of course then it would be discovered that it wasn't pump malfunction but the lack of fuel.

Such series of events occurred yesterday. It doesn't necessarily mean that RB cheated. Additionally it caused that Vettel will start at the back so we will see some overtaking on quite dull track and it levelled the championship battle which will also add to the excitement. So everyone happy with the exception of Vettel.

[myurr]

So... Horner has now decided that Vettel will start from the pit lane, as they need to change the fuel tank and break park ferme... This now leaves me wondering what illegal fuel tank design has the FIA found on the red bull?

Nothing: it was completely the decision from Red Bull to do so. When you have malfunctioning fuel systems, and you are starting last anyway, that is a very sensible decision, which brings me to my next point:

I think we have alot of "conspiracy-theory people" around here: it really is too far fetched to think that Red Bull tried to lie its way out of it; the statement of the FIA makes that much more clear: it was force majeure (no, beelsebob: force majeure does not include underfueling as that is within the control of the team!), so something really was going wrong in the car.

The FIA has already had to ask Red Bull to modify their car this year, and the team have history with lying to the public. "Oh we built an illegal way to adjust the suspension by hand but we promise we don't ever use it, even though it would carry a weight penalty. We simply love carrying extra weight on the car for no reason." "That's not a slot, it's a hole with an extra edge. 100% legal, can't even believe it's being questioned!" "We can't disable the off throttle exhaust blowing as it's required to cool our engine and it'll fail unless we at least cold blow the exhausts." That last one was right before they completed an entire GP without being allowed to do it. The team are habitual liars pure and simple.

Given the history I don't think it's far fetched at all. Now all this rubbish about Horner being sure the fuel was in there somewhere... If there was a part failure then why didn't the FIA use their discretion when collecting the fuel sample? Why didn't Red Bull stop the car when there was still a litre of fuel in the car and then argue that it was force majeure that they couldn't make it back to the pits? If it was underfuelled why didn't Red Bull bring the car in a lap earlier and opt to start 10th?

But most importantly if they have nothing to hide why lie to the press when the incident first happened? If it was really just a collector issue then why not stop the car when it got down to 1.2 or 1.1 litres and it was clear there was a fuel flow issue? Why let it get all the way down to 0.85l where it was always going to be illegal, and then try and argue your way out?

It is not as straight forward as the team made out, or they would be grossly incompetent for letting the fuel level get that low. So if it's not that straight forward and the team are deceiving people, you have to ask why. And that is where the conspiracy theories start - out of misinformation and deception on the part of the team.