2012 US GP - Circuit of the Americas

[beelsebob]

Hamilton is a whole new story, we're talking about alo/vet who are still in championship. Alosno hadnt had reliability dnf for like 40 races in a row? more maybe?

But has had a car slower than the RBR in every single race this year on pure pace.

He is also the man who bagged the most points on misfortune of others. Fast car is no of no use to you if it cant finnish the race.

Well yes... That's what makes Alonso such a great... It's not because he's the flat out quickest, it's because he's always there to capitalise when something goes wrong for anyone else.

[beelsebob]

That would be far less if you would count unbiased and thus also count what Vettel lost due unreliability. Not withstanding, Hamilton indeed had tons of bad luck this year.
I think Hamilton would overall be the better driver this year, but you don't do Vettel the honor he does deserve.

The count back mentioned did indeed involve what Vettel lost too. It included losing 25 in Valencia; and has subsequently involved losing 25 in Abu Dhabi; but gaining a good 10 too due to safety cars.

You forget alot of things there mate; remember italy, just as an example?

You're right about Italy actually. I'll do another count back later on, and we'll see how it goes down .

[Intego]

That is just 1 lap (out of a 56 lap race). From the timing, it is clear that the Ferrari took some time to heat up the tyres and struggled to CONSISTENTLY set times similar to Vettel and Hamilton.

I followed live timing, Ferrari was not far off the pace, ignoring their tyre problems. But it's tyre problems, the car is still fast (not the fastest, but fast). And remember mid season when they actually had the fastest car.
This Alonso praising is just getting

[beelsebob]

see if juzh laughes

What a sick comment! You should be banned!

Please, explain why ? Beelsebob laughed at my post, I was wondering if Juzh would laugh ?

In all fairness Nathan, I would tend to say that singling an individual forum user out in any way is not a great plan. If you're right, all it does is weaken your argument. If you're wrong, you look like a fanboy. I happen to think you're right in this instance, but that doesn't necessarily make rubbing it in another forum user's face right.

[WhiteBlue]

It looks like the thread is ready for closure. Nothing but fanboy yinyang.

[GrizzleBoy]

Knowing him (Alonso), he'll probably makes up about three positions by turn one and Felipe will be backing up the other cars in front of him for some nice DRS action.

Well looks like I was maybe half right.

Alonso jumped up three places by turn one and Felipe was racing other cars, albeit with much more pace than I thought he would.

[Intego]

Vettel did his fastest lap in the dirty air behind Lewis. He would have been faster than this for sure 100%

Why he wasn't earlier?

[NathanOlder]

In all fairness Nathan, I would tend to say that singling an individual forum user out in any way is not a great plan. If you're right, all it does is weaken your argument. If you're wrong, you look like a fanboy. I happen to think you're right in this instance, but that doesn't necessarily make rubbing it in another forum user's face right.

I see your point, It wasnt intended to come across as me rubbing someones face in it, If thats how Juzh read it then I apologize to him. But the comment from gilgen was way out of order, requesting me to be banned ?

[Shrieker]

Boys calm down. The McLaren is simply faster on the primes than the Red Bull. The question is will this be the case until the end of the race. Probably so. Vettel had no chance from the begin after they changed tyres in consecutive laps.

I think they were pretty evenly matched on hards -thanks to the dirty air; so long Vettel was ahead of Lewis, any advantage Hamilton had was being negated - meaning he couldn't get up close to make DRS work for a succesful overtake. I think he wouldn't have been able to pass Vettel if not for a bit of a help from a certain Indian driver Full props to Hamilton though for clinging onto Vettel and not letting him go any further away than 1-1.5s for what - half the race ? Without that he couldn't have taken advantage when the opportunity presented itself.

lol, mclaren was certainly the fastest car, it was just hamiltons poor driving that cost him the pole. It would have been quite bad for hamilton if he wouldnt win.

Uh oh. Not very good choice of words Didn't he do a near perfect lap in qualy... That's what most of us were saying anyway

[Gerhard Berger]

That is just 1 lap (out of a 56 lap race). From the timing, it is clear that the Ferrari took some time to heat up the tyres and struggled to CONSISTENTLY set times similar to Vettel and Hamilton.

I followed live timing, Ferrari was not far off the pace, ignoring their tyre problems. But it's tyre problems, the car is still fast (not the fastest, but fast). And remember mid season when they actually had the fastest car.
This Alonso praising is just getting

Well working the tyres is very important. No one said the car is "damn slow" as you like to claim. Qualifying pace is not so good, race pace seems to always be quite decent. Nothing new.

[Juzh]

To change the suject a bit.
How come mclaren was much faster than RB in high speed section and slower in abu dhabi like s2 and s3? Its exactly the other way around than it should be?

[NathanOlder]

Vettel did his fastest lap in the dirty air behind Lewis. He would have been faster than this for sure 100%

Why he wasn't earlier?

As the fuel load came down , the Red Bull got faster compared to the others. By which point it was too late. So I'd say the Red Bull was the fastest car. And a big fact to back this up is, Which car was the fastest over a single lap ? The Mclaren in Lewis' hands was better over 56 laps. Thats why he won the race.

[turbof1]

You're right about Italy actually. I'll do another count back later on, and we'll see how it goes down .

Counting back is never a good idea anyway. It would assume the car didn't had the problems, but this also influences other drivers their points. It is simply impossible to get it accurate. I think it is better to say Hamilton lost alot more points then Vettel due errors which didn't involve the driver, without getting into numbers which in retrospect will end up with a very complicated calculation and even with if's and or's. Like you assuming Vettel would missing out 25 points in Abu Dhabi: that is simply put guessing. We would never know what would have happened if he started 3th (2d? can't remember lol). Could be he could have won (unlikely actually) or if he simply lost more places.

[raymondu999]

I think most F1T members are knowledgeable enough to see that the F2012 is indeed a good car in race pace. It wasn't today, but it's generally on racewinning pace, just that they get stuck behind due to slower qualifying.

However there are a fair few less technical fans who still view the F2012 as the dog that started the season. Of course we need to remember that this is the car that, since the start of the European season, despite an underperforming number 2, has outscored McLaren and Lotus, and also moved up to P2 in the WCC hunt.

Vettel did his fastest lap in the dirty air behind Lewis. He would have been faster than this for sure 100%

Why he wasn't earlier?

As the fuel load came down , the Red Bull got faster compared to the others. By which point it was too late. So I'd say the Red Bull was the fastest car. And a big fact to back this up is, Which car was the fastest over a single lap ? The Mclaren in Lewis' hands was better over 56 laps. Thats why he won the race.

I'm not sure it's so clear cut. Up until the Lap 42 pass the McLaren was a lot better. It was better through the corners and braking visibly, and was still pulling something like 13kph on the straights. He was in the DRS zone for something like, what? 30 total laps? Vettel wasn't able to get within the DRS zone either throughout the 14 laps that he was in P2.

[NathanOlder]

I think the Red Bull had better traction out the slow corners sector 2&3, thats why Lewis couldnt pass untill Seb was caught out by the HRT. The Mclaren had a better front end.