2012 US GP - Circuit of the Americas

[Sevach]

I'm not sure it's so clear cut. Up until the Lap 42 pass the McLaren was a lot better. It was better through the corners and braking visibly, and was still pulling something like 13kph on the straights. He was in the DRS zone for something like, what? 30 total laps? Vettel wasn't able to get within the DRS zone either throughout the 14 laps that he was in P2.

Under braking the difference was quite obvious on the helicopter cam, Vettel was also using more track at some points.

I feel like Hamilton was a lot faster today, but he would get within .5 of Vettel and loose something due to aero, Vettel was doing a good job at keeping Hamilton behind until Karthikeyan "helped" him get closer at the DRS zone.

[Intego]

... (About the VET vs HAM battle , i think that Vettel's driving style , he is not agressive and does not take risks as hamilton does this ...

While I agree with the most of your post I want you to remember Monza 2011 when Vettel passed Alonso at high speed on the grass.

As for this DRS thing. While I don't like it and I don't count overtaking manoeuvres with DRS, it's good to see that a faster car/driver is no longer stuck behind another car.
But a lot of overtaking today in turn one and the best in the "Motodrom". =D>

[WhiteBlue]

I still do think that they should put transponders on the cars, and when a DRS enabled attacker comes fully alongside the defender should also be allowed to open his DRS flap. Vettel in this instance had no chance to defend once Hamilton was close enough to make a pass with DRS. It wasn't an epic duel, Hamilton dully zipped passed him - but could very well have been one.

Heh, to be honest, I don't remember a more epic dual... close to ever. The battle raged for near enough 40 laps!

The DRS simply did what it was designed to do. Let the faster car pass and prevent it to be stuck behind. Hamilton was 3 tenth quicker through sector 1 - which should have been Red Bull territory - for most of the race. On the back straight the McLaren had the legs on the Red Bull if you compare the top speed. They almost managed to negate that advantage by running up against the rev limiter there. Hamilton was hesitant to go full throttle in the earlier parts of the race because he or the team were concerned he needed to manage his tyres. When they discovered how good the option tyres were still after the pit stop they told him he could go full throttle on the primes. That was when he was instantly half a second quicker than Vettel in the Red Bull. This simply was a popular outcome and had nothing to do with the relative qualities of the top drivers compared to each others. Had it been the other way round people would be only talking about how easy it is for Vettel to win in a quicker car. If fair comparisons are being made people should acknowledge that Hamilton's victory was largely due to his car's superior race pace.

[raymondu999]

Btw, does anyone know what the pitlane time loss ended up as?

[beelsebob]

I still do think that they should put transponders on the cars, and when a DRS enabled attacker comes fully alongside the defender should also be allowed to open his DRS flap. Vettel in this instance had no chance to defend once Hamilton was close enough to make a pass with DRS. It wasn't an epic duel, Hamilton dully zipped passed him - but could very well have been one.

Heh, to be honest, I don't remember a more epic dual... close to ever. The battle raged for near enough 40 laps!

The DRS simply did what it was designed to do. Let the faster car pass and prevent it to be stuck behind. Hamilton was 3 tenth quicker through sector 1 - which should have been Red Bull territory

You're making false assumptions that the strengths of the RB8 are the same as the strengths of the RB6. The RB8 is not so strong in high speed aero. It's super strong in the low speed.

Had it been the other way round people would be only talking about how easy it is for Vettel to win in a quicker car. If fair comparisons are being made people should acknowledge that Hamilton's victory was largely due to his car's superior race pace.

Yes, note that both reactions depend on the fact that the RB8 is a quicker car than the MP4-27 at the moment. That's because it is.

[moto87]

I still do think that they should put transponders on the cars, and when a DRS enabled attacker comes fully alongside the defender should also be allowed to open his DRS flap. Vettel in this instance had no chance to defend once Hamilton was close enough to make a pass with DRS. It wasn't an epic duel, Hamilton dully zipped passed him - but could very well have been one.

Heh, to be honest, I don't remember a more epic dual... close to ever. The battle raged for near enough 40 laps!

The DRS simply did what it was designed to do. Let the faster car pass and prevent it to be stuck behind. Hamilton was 3 tenth quicker through sector 1 - which should have been Red Bull territory - for most of the race. On the back straight the McLaren had the legs on the Red Bull if you compare the top speed. They almost managed to negate that advantage by running up against the rev limiter there. Hamilton was hesitant to go full throttle in the earlier parts of the race because he or the team were concerned he needed to manage his tyres. When they discovered how good the option tyres were still after the pit stop they told him he could go full throttle on the primes. That was when he was instantly half a second quicker than Vettel in the Red Bull. This simply was a popular outcome and had nothing to do with the relative qualities of the top drivers compared to each others. Had it been the other way round people would be only talking about how easy it is for Vettel to win in a quicker car. If fair comparisons are being made people should acknowledge that Hamilton's victory was largely due to his car's superior race pace.

Hamilton has to say thank to Narain Karthikeyan.Vettel inattentive.

[ringo]

If fair comparisons are being made people should acknowledge that Hamilton's victory was largely due to his car's superior race pace.

Maybe it had to do with Vettel's inability to take pressure from a following car. He was very jittery over the laps. Locking up very frequently. He had the faster car today, if only by a little.
I feel his invisible enemy today was the track layout and the setup of the car for it. It just so happens Hamilton was faster in the sector leading up to the DRS zone, this gave him those DRS chances. Vettel's speed came in the last sector which really counteracted most of the progess Hamilton made.
The redbull had the more comfortable and more consistent run i feel. He was managing the gap 3/4 of the race.
Hamilton would get up to speed then slow, and do that repeatedly; they car wasn't so good on the option tyre as the redbull, which we saw with the earlier stop.
Vettel was pretty much running very fast the whole race, even with his little mistakes. IMO both cars were more or less equal with Hamilton being faster on the right sections of track. Vettel was in fact very fast as we could see when Lewis was not able to drop him behind after the overtake. This shows none of them had an inherent pace advantage, only that Vettel's car was a tad bit better on the tyre and probably lost out with top speed but not overall lap time.
All in All, Hamilton seemed to have that edge when it comes to hunting down and performing that decisive overtake. Which we saw with Webber earlier in the race.

[moto87]

cool!where is my post?

[bhall]

In 1992, James Carville, who was a strategist for Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton's campaign for U.S. president, came up with a phrase that served as the central tenant of the candidate's platform, a constant reminder of the biggest issue in the race: "It's the economy, stupid." Hammering that point home again and again proved to be a winning strategy.

I think we'd do well to adopt something similar around here to remind us all of the most important piece of the puzzle that dictates a driver's success and/or failure. It might help when conversations inevitably devolve into hero-worshipping pissing contests.

[Intego]

Btw, does anyone know what the pitlane time loss ended up as?

The time through the pitlane was between 16 to 22 s, I don't know the time to pass the pits on track.
Some examples:

Vettel
20 1:44.228
21P 1:44.757
22 2:01.742

Hamilton
19 1:44.840
20P 1:45.090
21 2:01.759

Massa
25 1:43.292
26P 1:43.925
27 2:04.964

Schumacher
38 1:43.317
39P 1:42.478
40 2:03.453

Räikkönen
23 1:43.481
24P 1:44.937
25 2:06.451

Grosjean
8 1:47.174
9P 1:48.057
10 2:03.774

[RB7ate9]

First off: Webber is the unluckiest driver in some of the fastest cars in Formula 1.

Second: Great drive by Hamilton. Stuck to it nice and smooth. Earned this win handily.

Third: Great for Massa. Nice to see him take 4th despite being pushed back on the grid due to "gearbox penalty"

Fourth: Vettel did the best he could, utilizing the RB8's traction out of the corners, but I think the quali pace was flattered by the DDRS employed on the RB8, so the amazing speed put down by Hamilton was more closely indicative of race pace. With that in mind, it was Hamilton's race to win. Right driver, right car. Roll on Interlagos.

Last Note: Seriously, someone needs to guard Webber's car throughout the race weekend. Especially with Brazil, where he has usually done really well at.

[Dragonfly]

I still do think that they should put transponders on the cars, and when a DRS enabled attacker comes fully alongside the defender should also be allowed to open his DRS flap. Vettel in this instance had no chance to defend once Hamilton was close enough to make a pass with DRS. It wasn't an epic duel, Hamilton dully zipped passed him - but could very well have been one.

This sort of thing is not good for F1. There could be other ways (like the one suggested above) to encourage braking duels and more side by side racing.

Agree with you. But there is a simple solution - put in the rules that DRS must not be used in the direct fight for the lead.

[Shrieker]

Heh, to be honest, I don't remember a more epic dual... close to ever. The battle raged for near enough 40 laps!

When you come to think of it, it was a very exciting encounter with Vettel ducking first left and then a bit to the right to defend the lead, coming very close to clipping Ham's front wing (or Ham coming very close to clipping Vettel's right rear, depends on your pow ) in the process. For a moment there I actually thought there was contact and that a small piece detached from Ham's wing.

But don't you think it would've been epic IF Vettel could also use the DRS once Hamilton was alongside, triggering an all out braking duel ? Or better yet, side by side racing for a few corners (or many, as we saw with WEB/HAM in Korea 2011) ? It's not a hard thing (or expensive) to implement and we the fans simply deserve it. I do think the ability to race cleanly when side by side is what makes a driver truly great. To be perfectly honest, Vettel and Hamilton are cutthroat in this respect and it doesn't make fair racing. Raikkonen has impressed me much in that regard this year. I've been watching his battles in the last few races and all of them were very very clean, hard but fair. He was a little unfortunate in Suzuka though - so was Alonso.

@ Dragonfly,
TBH it would've been a parade for the top 2 today without DRS. I think it's very beneficial and makes races exciting. Besides - why just focus on the fight for the lead ? They need to ensure that DRS offers a shot at overtaking but it not should do the whole thing. So I think they need to introduce an artificial tweak to prevent attackers from zipping past and disappearing into the distance.

[WhiteBlue]

You're making false assumptions that the strengths of the RB8 are the same as the strengths of the RB6. The RB8 is not so strong in high speed aero. It's super strong in the low speed.

I'm making no assumptions, particularly not about off topic speculations. What has the RB6 to do with this race?

Yes, note that both reactions depend on the fact that the RB8 is a quicker car than the MP4-27 at the moment. That's because it is.

It makes no sense to come up with such unspecific statements. The RB8 was quicker in qualifying trim and the MP4-27 obviously faster on race pace. People who try to portrait it different are not recognizing the facts.

[Ray]

Great race, can't wait for the torrent to hit TPB so I can watch it in a resolution abouve 480x320.