2012 Brazilian GP - Interlagos

[bhall]

...as long as people tell untrue statements about the regulations it is worth pointing out that they are wrong. If you think that teams can re use an engine which was taken out and replaced by another one for a qualifying or race during the races weekends 2-19 you are also wrong. Its prohibited. I can only offer to discuss this issue in a separate thread because it isn't applicable to the Brazilian GP 2012 in Interlagos.

I'm just gonna leave this right here.

It’s eight engines for the whole year. A driver will only incur a penalty if he uses a ninth engine. So the teams can use the engines as they like. There’s no three consecutive race rule because there doesn’t seem to be a need for it any longer. The engines will not have to do three complete events now.

In the past, as you know, the two-race engine was used only on Saturdays and Sundays. Now, for 17 races, the eight engines will have to do the three days of each Grand Prix. What the teams will do is to have a Friday engine that’ll probably do the first four races or something of that nature. They’ll then take the engine out and use another one for Saturday and Sunday. All we’ve got to do, - it’ll be extra work - is to make sure that these engines remain sealed and are untouched.

[raymondu999]

I think he should go for win, percentage game is risky as we witnessed in 2007, 2008 and 2010
He should go all out in quly and do the race as it unfolds and always cover the leading pack, not Alonso ( lesson learned from 2010).

From what we know of Vettel - I don't believe for a moment he will not be flat out in quali. Vettel is a very analytical driver IMO - he looks to give himself the easiest possible job. Which I don't blame him for - it's the smart thing to do. If anything he will have a mind to really nail qualifying. Pole position will make everything a whole lot easier for him. Less chance of carnage, clean air - and it saves him from having to choose between percentages and the win.

What IMO will be interesting to see is who gambles on wet/dry setups. Unless of course the forecast is clear-cut. I'm not a fan of teams "gambling" on wet/dry setups. I prefer things so that everyone is on a "level" playing field in terms of everyone being on a wet setup or everyone on a dry setup.

From what we know of Renault's alternator, the issues have been centered around slow average corner speeds. During those slow corners the alternator is apparently not getting cooled enough. Certainly Monza and Valencia have fit that mould, although not sure what to make of Austin. Maybe, in a weird way - a wet setup will be the Red Bull's saving grace? Run more downforce, quicker through the corners, have more air through the sidepods through the corners, and help ease the alternator?

I'm no engine expert - so be nice.

[siskue2005]

Yup I think that is an issue
But if it rains, it will help their reliability a little bit
And btw there was rain forecast for Saturday and Sunday yesterday
But now it is rain only for Sunday, maybe it won't rain at all

[raymondu999]

Interlagos has a sort of microclimate too though. I wouldn't bank on forecasts yet. Let's wait until Thursday for the forecasts. Even then - we need to see whether the rain will blanket the area Interlagos is in (or whether Interlagos is nearer to the outskirts of the raincloud)

I personally would so love Vettel to take a wet pole and wet win here - IMO it would be a nice symmetry for him to win his third title the way he won his first win back in Monza 2008.

Others, of course - are free to differ on opinion.

[WhiteBlue]

Whiting refers to the previous practise some years ago when you had to keep engines for consecutive races. All that was changed in 2009 for 2010 when FOTA fine tuned the rules to their own liking.

[RB7ate9]

Edited because: Irrelevant Post.

Tell us about engine 3 perhaps??

I was just joking about what engine Vettel was going to use. I have no clue. Ya got me

[raymondu999]

28.4 a)
Unless he drives for more than one team (see 28.4(b) below), each driver may use no more than eight engines during a Championship season. Should a driver use more than eight engines he will drop ten places on the starting grid at the first Event during which each additional engine is used. If two such additional engines are used during a single Event the driver concerned will drop ten places on the starting grid at that Event and at the following Event.
An engine will be deemed to have been used once the car’s timing transponder has shown that it has left the pit lane.
b) If a driver is replaced at any time during the Championship season his replacement will be deemed to be the original driver for the purposes of assessing engine usage.
c) After consultation with the relevant engine supplier the FIA will attach seals to each engine prior to it being used for the first time at an Event in order to ensure that no significant moving parts can be rebuilt or replaced.
Within two hours of the end of the post race parc fermé exhaust blanking plates (with one 10mm diameter inspection hole per cylinder) and further seals will be applied to all used engines in order to ensure that these engines cannot be run between Events.
Upon request to the FIA these additional seals will be removed after the start of initial scrutineering at the next Event at which the engines are required. All such engines must remain within the team’s designated garage area when not fitted to a car and may not be started at any time during an Event other than when fitted to a car eligible to participate in the Event.
d) If any of the FIA seals are damaged or removed from an engine after it has been used for the first time that engine may not be used again unless they were removed under FIA supervision.
e) If an engine is changed in accordance with Article 34.1 the engine which was replaced may not be used during any future qualifying session or race with the exception of the last Event of the Championship.

In this case,

28.6 For the purposes of this Article only, an Event will be deemed to comprise P3, the qualifying practice session and the race.

WB - you CAN change engines in any way you like out of the 8 - as long as it happens after Round X, and before the start of FP3 in Round (X+1).

[bhall]

It's like someone somehow made a brick wall out of cognitive dissonance. I'm strangely impressed by it.

[Nando]

For Alonso to win the WDC he has to win the race and Vettel must finish 6th or lower I believe.

Basically it means Vettel needs a DNF.
I think that is still very much a possibility.

My pick are these,

1. Hamilton
2. Webber
3. Vettel
4. Alonso
5. Raikkonen

-

1. Hamilton (reign supreme)
2. Alonso
3. Vettel
4. Webber (bad start)
5. Raikkonen


Edit: Button mysteriously off-pace fighting Saubers.

[raymondu999]

For those pondering the permutations (Nando, godla, whoever else) I've posted it earlier on in the thread. I think it's the opening page.

[beelsebob]

...is wrong, because nothing prevents a team from changing engines on Saturday morning, nor, as Ray said, is there a specified order to their use, and that's something, don't you think? We've made the forum, and this thread in particular, a bit more just and reasonable.

another one of your opinions and inaccuracies.
There is a difference between the last race and all other races. The difference is spelled out in §28.4.e.

No, no it is not, that's what most of this thread has been about. Rule 28.4e only talks about engines that have been swapped between qualifying and the race, and hence broken Parc Ferme. Those engines may not be used again (except at the last race). Any engine that has been swapped between races (including any race that isn't the last or second last), can be put back into the car for later, qualifying sessions and races as much as the teams like.

It really does not belong in this thread but as long as people tell untrue statements about the regulations it is worth pointing out that they are wrong.

Which is why so many people are telling you you're wrong

If you think that teams can re use an engine which was taken out and replaced by another one for a qualifying or race during the races weekends 2-19 you are also wrong. Its prohibited.

Which rule prohibits it? And don't assert 28.4e does, because that only prohibits it if it was taken out during parc ferme, not if it was taken out during the normal course of a race weekend while the car is not sealed; and not if it was taken out between race weekends.

I can only offer to discuss this issue in a separate thread because it isn't applicable to the Brazilian GP 2012 in Interlagos.

The mods are welcome to split it out if they like.

Rule 28.4e basically says "if you tell us the engine is broken after qually, and you need to replace it to finish the race, you can't then tell us 'actually it's fine' and use it for another race"

[ParanoiD]

Worst case scenario for Ferrari : 2008 repeated. Alonso win, but Vettel stole the WDC after Alonso crossing the finish line. (need to check if this scenario possible,cmiiw)

That would be a nightmare for them if it will be repeated.
LdM destroyed a TV last time, wonder what will he do this time.

[raymondu999]

It's possible. For that to happen, Vettel sneaks into P4.

They will end off the year with a historic first tie on points (Vettel is champion on countback)

[banibhusan]

I guess Massa should be faster than Alonso here. If that happens and Massa qualifies higher then Alonso then what strategies Ferrari will apply this time to benefit Alonso.

[beelsebob]

I guess Massa should be faster than Alonso here. If that happens and Massa qualifies higher then Alonso then what strategies Ferrari will apply this time to benefit Alonso.

I would imagine exactly the same ones. Or, if Massa is far enough up, use him to block Vettel until Alonso can pass.