2012 US GP - Circuit of the Americas

[sknguy]

Watched the shakedown video. Interesting show. At the end they talked about racing as a team sport. And that's one thing I wish we saw more of in F1. Teammates being teammates rather than taking each other out of a race. I respect what Massa did for the team at COTA. Specially so since he fought back to finish fourth behind Alonso.

From what I recall, I think Gilles Villeneuve was a team driver. I think he expected teamwork. And I wish more drivers would expect the same more often. In that respect... because of Massa's success and Ferrari's 2013 commitment to him, I'd suggest Massa is thinking more in team terms as well. I suppose you could be cynical and say giving up grid positions for the sake of the Alonso championship run is the result of "owing" something to ferrari for giving him another opportunity. And that it's simply part of a calculated transaction. But I think Massa's driven a bit more by passion and loyalty than he is cold and calculating.

Although Lewis, Kimi or others could play spoiler for either Alonso or Vettel at Brazil, it would be best if Ferrari do whatever it takes to make Red Bull and Vettel feel that they can't simply race Alonso alone, but Massa as well. They need to cover the strategies of the two drivers rather than just the one. Beleive me I'm not so much an Alonso fan as much as I am a Massa fan... and I do respect the emmense talent of Vettel, but I think Massa's got a good opportunity to be a hero if he performs as well at Brazil as he did at COTA. Particularly in front of his countrymen.

I think COTA was a good circuit for everyone. The one thing I wondered about though was would Hamilton's old tendency to overdrive his car resurface at COTA? As it turned out, although he was driving on the edge, or like a bat-outta-hell, tire degredation wasn't a problem and it went well for him. Where Vettel was carrying speed through turns Hamilton was happy just making his tires do the work. He sure has matured a lot as a driver though.

Alsonso, from what little I saw of him, was pretty smooth around COTA. His driving was very Alonso-like, kinda calculated. I miss his "Renault days" type driving. Being creative, unpredictable and able to turn it on when the need arose. But then again, the Renault/Michelin combo was a better package for him. But he still made the most of what they fielded at COTA.

I was surprised by the Lotus here. I think the Lotus liked COTA. But you know, it did win at Buddh, which shares a bit of the technical character, but not the polish, of COTA.

[Intego]

I must admit that I didn't even know that GT3 was driving, because it was completely ignored by our German free broadcaster. Sorry for having been a know-it-all.

[Phil]

Well it's quite easy to jugde from the vid. isn't it ? Vettel is barely half a car's length behind Hamilton when they start braking - DRS activation when the attacker had drawn alongside more than likely would've given him that half a car's length (maybe even more). Hence presenting us the fans much needed braking duel and maybe even side by side racing. I agree with you though that results would vary a lot with so many different track/DRS zone types.

IMO this just sounds too much like the "handicap" feature on a lot of arcade computer racing games that artificially makes the cars further back quicker to make it easier to catch up and to create a level playing field. It's artificial and complicates the whole racing. DRS is bad enough as far as artificial overtakes go, but I get the point that it is somewhat necessary because of how aero dependand the cars have become.

Also, what may work at one track probably doesn't on another track. DRS has shown this - especially in the first year where some of the zones made overtaking far too easy and in some, where it didn't help at all. Getting it just right is extremely difficult - imagine what will happen if you further complicate this process by adding yet another (artifical) factor...

[Hobbs04]

As far as the Alonso being 30 sec behind. All I have read so far is that the F2012 was a dog and couldn't keep up.

I think that was strategic in the fact if he pushed 110% or 120% whatever he said before, he would/could have ran his tires off and probably only gained 20 secs and still been 3rd. He had Massa to cover him from Button. Another thing was Safety car. There were numerous battles going on Senna/Maldonado and imagine if a safety car had come out? Alonso with more than enough rubber to challenge. I think Alonso was playing smart just my 2 cents.

[munudeges]

They've got a pretty healthy performance lead into the final season with the regulations and engines they have now. You're seeing all sorts of small elements appearing on the car to accelerate air around the car where they want. Their only real weak point is straight line performance where all they can do is reduce drag as far as they can but they've only got one season left with their current V8.

[beelsebob]

They've got a pretty healthy performance lead into the final season with the regulations and engines they have now. You're seeing all sorts of small elements appearing on the car to accelerate air around the car where they want. Their only real weak point is straight line performance where all they can do is reduce drag as far as they can but they've only got one season left with their current V8.

You're exaggerating the lead they have. The RB8 is awesome in slow/medium speed changes of direction at the moment, but the McLaren more than has it's measure in high speed aero, and in straight line speed.

[gandharva]

The weakest point RB8 has is its very poor highspeed performance on straights and also in very fast corners.

[raymondu999]

I think this year we are seeing an interesting distinction though. IMO the McLaren, except for Austin - hasn't been the best in fast slaloms. BUT it has been fast in the singular fast sweepers (as shown in Barcelona and Sepang) The Red Bull IMO is not as quick as the McLaren through the singular fast sweepers, but has been better through the slaloms.

[beelsebob]

I think this year we are seeing an interesting distinction though. IMO the McLaren, except for Austin - hasn't been the best in fast slaloms. BUT it has been fast in the singular fast sweepers (as shown in Barcelona and Sepang) The Red Bull IMO is not as quick as the McLaren through the singular fast sweepers, but has been better through the slaloms.

I'm not sure where else there really has been a fair comparison. At Silverstone, the McLaren had a massively compromised setup. At Sazuka it was set up for the final two sectors more than the first. My suspicion is that the McLaren is just plain better (only slightly, but better) through fast corners (including fast slaloms), but that they've botched their setup at the circuits where the slaloms exist.

[munudeges]

You're exaggerating the lead they have. The RB8 is awesome in slow/medium speed changes of direction at the moment, but the McLaren more than has it's measure in high speed aero, and in straight line speed.

Don't think so and the results say otherwise. The McLaren is still nowhere near in high speed corners so I don't quite know where people are getting that from. They're making quite a lot up in straight line performance and that's really what's helped them at Abu Dhabi and Austin. Elsewhere they just haven't been close.

[beelsebob]

You're exaggerating the lead they have. The RB8 is awesome in slow/medium speed changes of direction at the moment, but the McLaren more than has it's measure in high speed aero, and in straight line speed.

Don't think so and the results say otherwise. The McLaren is still nowhere near in high speed corners so I don't quite know where people are getting that from.

Perhaps the fact that the McLaren was 0.1 seconds faster in S1 at CotA, 0.2 faster in S2, and 0.4 slower in S3. S1 being dominated by high speed, 2 by straight line, and 3 by slow/medium speed.

They're making quite a lot up in straight line performance and that's really what's helped them at Abu Dhabi and Austin.

No, they were faster than the RBR in the high speed at austin, they were also faster in the high speed at barcelona, and in fact pretty much all high speed circuits where they didn't botch setup for one reason or another.

[munudeges]

Perhaps the fact that the McLaren was 0.1 seconds faster in S1 at CotA, 0.2 faster in S2, and 0.4 slower in S3. S1 being dominated by high speed, 2 by straight line, and 3 by slow/medium speed.

McLaren were nowhere near in Friday practice or qualifying (the race was largely tyre limited regarding corners) and the first two sectors are dominated by straight line performance. Whatever you gain in sector 1 in the corners you lose down the start/finish straight and sector 2 is pretty obvious. Sector 3 is where any corner advantage shows up, and 0.4 seconds is a lot to be down.

Besides, the trend has been pretty clear since Singapore. Japan was a pretty clear illustration.

No, they were faster than the RBR in the high speed at austin, they were also faster in the high speed at barcelona, and in fact pretty much all high speed circuits where they didn't botch setup for one reason or another.

No they weren't and going back to Barcelona is a bit nonsensical really.

Making that distinction about where the RB8's strengths are just isn't borne out. The one area where they are clearly lacking and losing out is straight line performance.

[Nando]

Perhaps the fact that the McLaren was 0.1 seconds faster in S1 at CotA, 0.2 faster in S2, and 0.4 slower in S3. S1 being dominated by high speed, 2 by straight line, and 3 by slow/medium speed.

McLaren were nowhere near in Friday practice or qualifying (the race was largely tyre limited regarding corners) and the first two sectors are dominated by straight line performance. Whatever you gain in sector 1 in the corners you lose down the start/finish straight and sector 2 is pretty obvious. Sector 3 is where any corner advantage shows up, and 0.4 seconds is a lot to be down.

Besides, the trend has been pretty clear since Singapore. Japan was a pretty clear illustration.

No, they were faster than the RBR in the high speed at austin, they were also faster in the high speed at barcelona, and in fact pretty much all high speed circuits where they didn't botch setup for one reason or another.

No they weren't and going back to Barcelona is a bit nonsensical really.

Making that distinction about where the RB8's strengths are just isn't borne out. The one area where they are clearly lacking and losing out is straight line performance.

S1 is all about high speed stability/downforce

S2 is all about aero efficiency

S3 is all about mechanical grip

Frankly you can´t say the RBR is better in any area compared to the mclaren. And vice versa at that.

[raymondu999]

S1 is all about high speed stability/downforce

S2 is all about aero efficiency

S3 is all about mechanical grip

How is S3 CotA about mechanical grip?

[Nando]

Got a bit ahead of myself yesterday, should be more like half the sector frankly.