2012 Brazilian GP - Interlagos

[Joie de vivre]

Rules don't apply equally for everyone. Even though they indicated for slippery track, those yellow lights were there and overtaking is prohibited.

[WhiteBlue]

Rules don't apply equally for everyone. Even though they indicated for slippery track, those yellow lights were there and overtaking is prohibited.

Before you make such claims you should really research the appreciation of the race stewards. They do have quite competent people there who know the rules. From the top of my head I could imagine several mitigating circumstances:
1. I have seen a green flag/light which may indicate that there was a malfunction in the system. How is a driver supposed to react when he is shown green and yellow flags in very short order?
2. Kobayashi did not finish the lap but dived into the pits which denied Vettel the chance to rectify a mistake that he could have made due to the colour change. So effectively Vettel gained no advantage, which is the underlying reason for a penalty.
The stewards could have appreciated both mitigating circumstances and come to the conclusion that there was no unsporting behaviour requiring a penalty. You cannot know this unless you have access to their deliberations.

[Juzh]

Rules don't apply equally for everyone. Even though they indicated for slippery track, those yellow lights were there and overtaking is prohibited.

How many times will this be brought up? At least you could have read the thread more carefully.
So I'll post it again:
Vettel vs Kobayashi pass was made under a SOLID yellow (non flashing, there is also no marshals beside the track waving yellow flags), which equals a red and yellow flag (notice to drivers about slippery surface, this does not mean you can not overtake). FLASHING yellow which equals a yellow flag means no overtaking permitted in the erea.
SKY had gotten it completely wrong this time and I think they should make it clear on their website, so people stop with all the nonsense surrounding this. That's why Pat Fry also said ferrari won't protest or anything, because they knew what was going on, and thats why it wasn't investigated by the stewards.
There is also no yellow lights on sides of vettel's steering wheel at the time.

[beelsebob]

Rules don't apply equally for everyone. Even though they indicated for slippery track, those yellow lights were there and overtaking is prohibited.

Before you make such claims you should really research the appreciation of the race stewards. They do have quite competent people there who know the rules. From the top of my head I could imagine several mitigating circumstances:
1. I have seen a green flag/light which may indicate that there was a malfunction in the system. How is a driver supposed to react when he is shown green and yellow flags in very short order?

Two things.
1) The driver is always supposed to respect yellow flags. They are there for safety, there is no margin for interpretation. If you see a yellow flag, you respect it, otherwise you get this:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ih9Zi6Wo9nI[/youtube]
2) Sure, mittigating circumstances. But you expect the reaction of the FIA when there are mitigating circumstances to be to say it's under investigation, to investigate it, to call the drivers to the stewards, and to make a decission, not to claim that the incident never happened.

2. Kobayashi did not finish the lap but dived into the pits which denied Vettel the chance to rectify a mistake that he could have made due to the colour change. So effectively Vettel gained no advantage, which is the underlying reason for a penalty.

Notably, this is not a time when the "gaining an advantage" rule applies. The "gaining an advantage" rule is about when you go off the track. Under yellow flags, as I said above, there is no leeway. You do not overtake under yellows... Ever. If you do, you (should) get a penalty, even if you hand the place back.

The stewards could have appreciated both mitigating circumstances and come to the conclusion that there was no unsporting behaviour requiring a penalty. You cannot know this unless you have access to their deliberations.

Well, the issue is that when the stewards have deliberations about something they typically say "Incident involving cars 1 and 14 under investigation", not "nope, we're not aware of anything ever happening".

[Juzh]

@beelsebob
Did you even bother to read my post? There was no investigation because there was no incident. Vettel passed under solid yellows which equal slippery surface and overtaking is allowed in this area. And he had no obligation to give the position back even if kobayashi didnt go into the pits for new wing.

[Intego]

It is clear that Vettel passed under yellow LIGHTS (not blinking), NO yellow FLAGS. Why they were there we can only speculate on, BECAUSE:

2.4.3.4 Other light signals
Light panels may be used to form visual representations of the yellow flag with red stripes, safety car board or other signals, which must be stipulated in the Supplementary Regulations of the event.

2.4.4.2 Clerk of the Course light signals
Lights or light panels may be used to form visual representations of the above-mentioned signals [i.e. all flags]; if so, this must be stipulated in the Supplementary Regulations of the event.

source: Appendix H 2012 - Recommendations for the supervision of the road and emergency services

Problem: You will problably never find those Supplementary Regulations!

[Forza]

It is clear that Vettel passed under yellow LIGHTS (not blinking), NO yellow FLAGS. Why they were there we can only speculate on, BECAUSE:
:

Official F1 iPad app that shows the track status

[Nando]

Anyone noticed the weird "DRS is on, no it´s off, ok it´s on"

When Hulk closed in on Alonso, DRS was off. Alonso goes wide, half a lap later, DRS is available again

[skgoa]

It is clear that Vettel passed under yellow LIGHTS (not blinking), NO yellow FLAGS. Why they were there we can only speculate on, BECAUSE:
:

Official F1 iPad app that shows the track status

Doesn't matter since it's not official. What counts is the flags that are shown by the marshals. Even if you don't believe the very regulations that have been quoted in this thread, the footage clearly shows no yellow flags being waved. Even if you claim the green light at the side of the track being shown and the yellow lights on Vettel's dashboard turning off were errors and shouldn't overrule yellow flags, THERE STILL WERE NO YELLOW FLAGS. I don't effing understand how people can still talk about this as if we didn't already see the video and as if everyone actually involved in F1 hasn't already confirmed it.

[strad]

This is the kind of stupid discussion that turns real fans off and destroys sites.
It was a legal pass period. Jeeeeeeez

[Forza]

strad@ I agree it's hard to make objective discussion. FIA confirmed the results so that's it.

skgoa@ I didn't comment on the situation as I only provided what was showed on the screen so you don't have to make assumptions about my opinion. The orange on scheme indicates red-yellow flag. (Yellow and red striped flag -Warns drivers of a slippery track surface, usually due to oil or water). It was posed before but maybe you've missed.

To answer many it appears the warning lights were red and yellow for slippery track not yellow so nothing to answer for Vettel.

Pat Fry tells Sky Vettel's move on Kobayashi took place under an 'oil flag' (red-and-yellow), not a yellow flag, therefore no penalty. #F1

There have been some suggestions that Sebastian Vettel may have passed Kamui Kobayashi when yellow lights were flashing. Ferrari technical director Pat Fry says it appears they were yellow and red slippery track flags and not yellows. Therefore, no penalty required.

It was suggested from some corners that Ferrari could protest the decision not to penalise Vettel, who would have likely received a drive-through penalty if found guilty. After the race Ferrari's technical director Pat Fry dismissed the notion, stating it was an oil flag, and not a caution, and that he did not expect a protest to be lodged by his team.

Race Steward Garry Connelly, subsequently confirmed Fry's claim, insisting that the flag shown was an oil flag.

[McMrocks]

Anyone noticed the weird "DRS is on, no it´s off, ok it´s on"

When Hulk closed in on Alonso, DRS was off. Alonso goes wide, half a lap later, DRS is available again

I noticed that too, but was it really disabled as Hulk closed to Alonso? I don't remember. But it was just 1min disabled then is was enabled again. I think this had nothing to do with Alonso maybe the FiA just thought that the rain was getting heavier.

But it enables conspiracy theories...
The safety car due to the debris was the right decision. For example Rosberg had problems with debris.

[Richard]

*whisper* I think they've gone so we can reopen this. Intego's alternative thread wasn't too bad so I've merged it into here.

It was a great race with some great driving and passing.

I have to say Kimi's scenic route gave us one of the most amusing racing moments, definitely on par with "I know what I'm doing". I'd love to hear his radio at that moment "I don't know where I'm going"

[McMrocks]

thank you mister leeds =D>


was it already posted?

edit: yes it was. sorry

[turbof1]

Could someone photoshop a mcdonalds drive-in at the frame where kimi was standing at the gate? That would be hilarious.