2012 Brazilian GP - Interlagos

[Gerhard Berger]

Did they repeat their 2011 ending credits song again? What is it? Kasabian?

it is alistair griffin (the same guy who did the "just drive" song in the 2010 ending). I don't know the name of this new song, but it is pretty good.

[raymondu999]

Ran it through SoundHound.

It's "Always No. 1" by Alistair Griffin

[Intego]

...
Note, it too does not mention yellow flags...

My reaction to this can only be... . It would appear that the FIA forgot to include rules banning overtaking under yellows!

It's in Appendix H of the FIA sporting regulations:

2.4.5 Signals used at marshal posts
2.4.5.1 Marshal flag signals
b) Yellow flag
This is a signal of danger and should be shown to drivers in two ways with the following meanings:
- Single waved: Reduce your speed, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction. There is a hazard beside or partly on the track.
- Double waved: Reduce your speed significantly, do not overtake, and be prepared to change direction or stop. There is a hazard wholly or partly blocking the track and/or marshals working on or beside the track.

Yellow flags should normally be shown only at the marshal post immediately preceding the hazard.

In some cases, however, the Clerk of the Course may order them to be shown at more than one marshal post preceding an incident.
Overtaking is not permitted between the first yellow flag and the green flag displayed after the incident.
Yellow flags should not be shown in the pit lane unless there is an incident of which the driver should be made aware.

Appendix H 2012 - Recommendations for the supervision of the road and emergency services

[komninosm]

IMO it's a consequence-based penalty. He was penalised not because of him sliding under braking, but because he took Hamilton out of the race.

]Force India
Nico Hulkenberg (5th)
“That was a lot of fun - very entertaining and there was so much happening all the time! We had a great chance to finish on the podium today, but it slipped away, which is a shame. In the early laps it was difficult to keep the car on the track in the very damp conditions, but it was not really wet enough for intermediates and I stuck with the slicks. It was the right decision and soon I was leading the race. I felt comfortable but eventually I made a small mistake and Lewis got ahead of me. I managed to stay with him and was fighting to get the lead back when we touched. It’s hard to say what happened but I was making a move going into turn one and had a slightly loose rear. I was about to turn in and suddenly there was contact. It’s a shame for both of us because we were having a great battle. I managed to keep going but I had lost a lot of time. Fifth place is still a super result to end the season and I think the team did an excellent job this weekend. I hope they enjoyed the race - it’s a nice leaving present in my last race.”
Just for LOLs :p

So is overtaking under yellows written in the rules or not? I'm confused.

[Guisson]

Is there a chance for Fernando to still win the championship if they penalize vettel?
However if this happens ...It will be very BAD for F1 ..I think it's almost the same case as Football when the refree forgets a clear Penlaty ( chelsea Barcelona 2009 style) ..It's part of the sport

[raymondu999]

Results are locked in November 30. Before that they can still penalise.

However as precedent shows (Malaysia 2010 - Vettel on Trulli) that if the overtaken driver is letting the overtaking driver through on purpose, then no penalty is taken.

The BBC's tribute to Vettel's 3rd title:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fA7N5knYuw[/youtube]

[Crucial_Xtreme]

So... I have an interesting take on this even assuming he *did* overtake under yellows...

An incident is any one of the following according to the sporting regulations:

a) Necessitated the suspension of a race under Article 41.
b) Constituted a breach of these Sporting Regulations or the Code.
c) Caused a false start by one or more cars.
d) Caused a collision.
e) Forced a driver off the track.
f) Illegitimately prevented a legitimate overtaking manoeuvre by a driver.
g) Illegitimately impeded another driver during overtaking.

Note, no mention of overtaking under yellow flags. The only mention of yellow flags in the sporting regulations are for two circumstances – 1) when a car has stalled on the grid 2) when the safety car is deployed.

For reference, here's "the code"
http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.ns ... v08ANG.pdf

Note, it too does not mention yellow flags...

My reaction to this can only be... . It would appear that the FIA forgot to include rules banning overtaking under yellows!

Flags

Marshals at various points around the circuit are issued with a number of standard flags, all used to communicate vital messages to the drivers as they race around the track. A special display in each driver’s cockpit - known as a GPS marshalling system - also lights up with the relevant flag colour, as the driver passes the affected section of track. Travelling at such high speeds, it may be hard for a driver to spot a marshal’s flag and this system helps them identify messages from race control more effectively.

Chequered flag
Indicates to drivers that the session has ended. During practice and qualifying sessions it is waved at the allotted time, during the race it is shown first to the winner and then to every car that crosses the line behind him.

Yellow flag
Indicates danger, such as a stranded car, ahead. A single waved yellow flag warns drivers to slow down, while two waved yellow flags at the same post means that drivers must slow down and be prepared to stop if necessary. Overtaking is prohibited.

Green flag
All clear. The driver has passed the potential danger point and prohibitions imposed by yellow flags have been lifted.

Red flag
The session has been stopped, usually due to an accident or poor track conditions.

Blue flag
Warns a driver that he is about to be lapped and to let the faster car overtake. Pass three blue flags without complying and the driver risks being penalised. Blue lights are also displayed at the end of the pit lane when the pit exit is open and a car on track is approaching.

Yellow and red striped flag
Warns drivers of a slippery track surface, usually due to oil or water.

Black with orange circle flag
Accompanied by a car number, it warns a driver that he has a mechanical problem and must return to his pit.

Half black, half white flag
Accompanied by a car number, it warns of unsporting behaviour. May be followed by a black flag if the driver does not heed the warning.

Black flag
Accompanied by a car number, it directs a driver to return to his pit and is most often used to signal to the driver that he has been excluded from the race.

White flag
Warns of a slow moving vehicle on track.

http://www.formula1.com/inside_f1/under ... /5282.html

[komninosm]

Results are locked in November 30. Before that they can still penalise.

However as precedent shows (Malaysia 2010 - Vettel on Trulli) that if the overtaken driver is letting the overtaking driver through on purpose, then no penalty is taken.

Yeah, though it can get messy, like "Trully and Hamilton" messy :p

Anyway, I looked at the video and sadly Vettel is legal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0esusF0#

There were yellow lights after the first turns.
BUT there was a (very hard to see) marshal with a green flag on the straight before the Johnny Walker billboard (near pit exit), on a raised platform on the left side, Weird thing is, not 50m before him was a yellow light on the right side.
Sadly Vettel seems legal here, and the vid creator explained away all the other controversial passes, Ferrari didn't protest so...

(I don't really care either way. I hate Vettel, but Alonso more and Ferrari too for poor sportsmanship. Red Bull I hate for being cheaters, see different threads. So you might say I'm not biased in this)

[myurr]

Errm... In your linked video the guy actually points out a third, and this time illegal, overtake. Vettel went at racing speed through a yellow flag zone with the car squirming all over the place, and got a run on a Torro Rosso. He passed that car under yellow flags before the green flag checkpoint.

So we may have been wrong about the other passes, but it would appear there is an illegal move by Vettel and he should be investigated at least.

[myurr]

Is there a chance for Fernando to still win the championship if they penalize vettel?
However if this happens ...It will be very BAD for F1 ..I think it's almost the same case as Football when the refree forgets a clear Penlaty ( chelsea Barcelona 2009 style) ..It's part of the sport

The standard penalty would be to have 20 seconds added to his time. That would drop him to 9th place and would give Alonso the title.

It's not a good thing for F1 if this happens, but then again it wouldn't be a good thing if an illegal and potentially very dangerous move went unpunished. The yellow flags are there for a reason. If that you tube video is correct, and I cannot see any problem with his analysis, then Vettel has won the championship despite cheating and putting marshalls at risk. That's not exactly great for F1 either!

[turbof1]

I think the FIA and the stewards made the right decision here. Even if Vettel made a faulty overtake, they should say he didn't. That way they are not creating any precedents and isn't the championship settled over something very stupid like a small infringement like this.

Note that I am against people unpunished, but a penalty here would do more damage then good.

[radosav]

from an Alonso fan: 2012 championship is over, Vettel won

[WhiteBlue]

So we may have been wrong about the other passes, but it would appear there is an illegal move by Vettel and he should be investigated at least.

I followed the thread and learned that the stewards did investigate and concluded that no violation of the rule was committed. So is there another kind of investigation other than the race stewards necessary in your opinion?

Additionally there was information how yellow flag rules are treated in F1. A steady yellow just signals danger but does not require the driver to drop his speed or prevent him from passing. A waived yellow means slowing down and no overtaking. Two waved yellows mean the track is blocked and you have to prepare for stopping. That seems to make sense to me. Why should there be a steady yellow and a waved yellow is they both mean the same thing?

[Juzh]

Is there a chance for Fernando to still win the championship if they penalize vettel?
However if this happens ...It will be very BAD for F1 ..I think it's almost the same case as Football when the refree forgets a clear Penlaty ( chelsea Barcelona 2009 style) ..It's part of the sport

The standard penalty would be to have 20 seconds added to his time. That would drop him to 9th place and would give Alonso the title.

It's not a good thing for F1 if this happens, but then again it wouldn't be a good thing if an illegal and potentially very dangerous move went unpunished. The yellow flags are there for a reason. If that you tube video is correct, and I cannot see any problem with his analysis, then Vettel has won the championship despite cheating and putting marshalls at risk. That's not exactly great for F1 either!

People are really still dreaming about championship being stripped away from vettel and given to alonso? Youtube video is INcorrect, as was explained here, and in youtube comments. Results will be set in stone on 30th november, and nothing is going to change until then. get over it.

[AMNJG24F]

My only thing is, if the green flag was out from the marshall at the Johnny Walker sign (as it clearly is), then shouldn't the sign board entering turn 4 have a solid green instead of a flashing green? Pretty misleading.