About Vettel overtaking a Toro Rosso

[mnmracer]

Perhaps Fernando should remember what he had to say in 2007:

Fernando Alonso believes it would be bad for Formula One if Lewis Hamilton was handed the world championship title via post-race disqualifications.

Speaking after news of the investigation into the BMWs and Williams broke, Alonso said Formula One's reputation would be damaged if Raikkonen lost the title because Hamilton was retrospectively promoted to fourth.

"It would be a joke, and we've had too many already," he told Spanish radio station Cadena Ser. "If something like that happened, it would end up burying the sport." -source

[Cam]

Interesting it seems from several reports that Ferrari are not pushing for a protest, its Alonso pushing for it. Alonso would need to be careful here as this could come back on him. There's little doubt of the colour of that flag from what we can see, hence we're not seeing Ferrari jump up and down and other teams piping up. The FIA would also presume to need to state something. What I think will happen is that any investigation will drag on past the cut off date, sealing the original results and it'll all blow over. The bad PR and sour grapes that is coming out now is no good for anyone and some true colours are starting to emerge.

In hindsight, why RBR didn't do a late tyre change on Webber to push Vettel up another spot is beyond me.

[JimClarkFan]

Ferrari are now considering lodging a protest.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/20531638

Just seen this, I think it is worth a shout.... although if Vettel was to lose the championship it would not be a nice way for Alonso to win it. None of that matters though, the rules are the rules, and if he has been deemed to break those rules then he should have been penalized at that time.

[wesley123]

Cam and Wesley,

Are you writting that really you can see a green flag there inside the red circle? Wow... fantastic imagination, but someone should demonstrate the legallity with realistic evidences, not supposed and imaginated green flags. Yellow flags (circuit and Vettel cockpit) are so clear to close the case talking about supposed and not demonstrated green flags.

You probably need glasses. There is clearly someone waving a flag there in the vid, and from what I see it clearly is seen, or do you wanna say that marshall psot is unmanned?

I would like to see this green flag or know the reason of this abnormal speed, but currently the overtake is NOT LEGAL.

Regards

Take a look at the vid and the image, you might want to full screen the vid so you can clearly see it

[Cam]

Let it go Wesley. He's copped 2 x -1s for riding that train, as have a few others. Objectivity is out the window for a few on here as is evidence based facts. It's easier just to make a nuisance out yourself than do some research and put forth a valid argument with supporting information from credible sources.

[The Driver]

These guys are professional enough to respect race controls' descions
I do not think he decided to wave that green flag on his own purpose.( let alone during an F1 final )

It actually makes perfect sense that green was waved at this location. The yellow flags and lights were shown because Maldonado had gone off into the barriers in turn 3 the lap before. The marshal post is just after turn 3, so green flag is what should be shown.

[Chuckjr]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but in this video there is no question Vettle passes under yellow.

http://youtu.be/JuMZzI8pOz4

According to the FIA rules, they have till Nov 30 to look at and dissect the footage.

"Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

Also: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship.""

Looking at that video and then these rules I can't imagine how this championship result won't be changed. It seems Ferrari would not even have to protest--but maybe I'm wrong. I guess we will know by Friday.

[vall]

Do you have a source to confirm there is no calibration error? To simply state that does not make it true. We can all see the lights on the dash and most of us are offering plausible reasons as to why we're seeing what we're seeing. It's plausible that the dash lights simply stayed on past when they should of turned off - and in fact that error could be on every car and every car would have had the same problem at that point.

If you had offered up some facts on calibration with perhaps a link to a map or regulations that supports it, well, that would be something.

Unless there's an investigation, we won't know. But at least have some plausible arguments so we can try to get to the bottom of this.

Edit: clarified some words

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFER0esusF0[/youtube]

watch the footage in this YOUTUBE. The dash lights go on and off when the car passes the light screens.

[JimClarkFan]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but in this video there is no question Vettle passes under yellow.

http://youtu.be/JuMZzI8pOz4

According to the FIA rules, they have till Nov 30 to look at and dissect the footage.

"Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

Also: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship.""

Looking at that video and then these rules I can't imagine how this championship result won't be changed. It seems Ferrari would not even have to protest--but maybe I'm wrong. I guess we will know by Friday.

vry good vid

[Redragon]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but in this video there is no question Vettle passes under yellow.

http://youtu.be/JuMZzI8pOz4

According to the FIA rules, they have till Nov 30 to look at and dissect the footage.

"Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

Also: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship.""



Looking at that video and then these rules I can't imagine how this championship result won't be changed. It seems Ferrari would not even have to protest--but maybe I'm wrong. I guess we will know by Friday.

vry good vid

Now thanks to this great video, it is obvious that Vettel passed on yellow light. But would it be relevant?. Just to add more this drama, on spanish newspaper comment area I just pick up something really interesting too. When they alude to this video. On the comment they say that the Toro Rosso of Vergne was slightly behind of 20 seconds different with Vettel. As if Redbull were getting ready in case of the compleining was going through. It would be interesting the outcome of all of this. But I believe he will retain the title, despite the dodgy way, as shumacher won pushing the other car out of the track.
It's life.

[The Driver]

I'm not trying to stir the pot, but in this video there is no question Vettle passes under yellow.

Did you actually read this thread? There is no doubt that Vettel passed inbetween a yellow flashing light and a green flashing light. However, as the evidence in this thread presented shows, there was an additional marshal post between those lights, where a marshal was waving a green flag (an actual flag, not a light). And Vettel passed after that post. That's why I am convinced that the pass was legal.

[Diosfenix]

[Cam]

You've answered you're own question and given my theory of lag extra credibility - so thank you.

As I see that video, you can see Maldonado on the right hand side of turn 3, hence the yellow, then we hit the straight and we see the green flag on the left hand side, Vettel makes the pass, then passes the green LED. Notice the LAG after he passes the green LEDs - the dash lights don't go off until he's passed the braking marker - yet, as the regs say, you can pass at the point of the green flag - so the dash lights are wrong, at least for some distance.

Now, can you see that?

GREEN LEDs - dash lights on. Lights should turn off on the point of the those LEDs


Now we're passed those LED's - dash lights still on - notice the braking marker on the RHS


Dash lights go off - way passed the approved point. The dash lights are a GUIDE. they are not 100% accurate.


So you're basing this entire thing on dash lights which I've just proven here are not accurate? And you still won't acknoledge the green flag being waved.

There is no convincing you, it is plain to see.

[Caito]

Hypothetical case:

Let's say vettel gets punished to 8th place. Can Red Bull say "we cheated with Mark Webber, he should be Disqualified" hence increasing the position of Vettel to 7th and winning again? That would be really funny.

[Cam]

Hypothetical case:

Let's say vettel gets punished to 8th place. Can Red Bull say "we cheated with Mark Webber, he should be Disqualified" hence increasing the position of Vettel to 7th and winning again? That would be really funny.

LOL probably. Where does it end though? Then Button drops out to help Alonso - it's crazy.

Actually I'm over it. This whole thing is a farce and the fact the FIA is not saying anything only exacerbates the problem.