Lotus E21 Renault

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
shelly
shelly
136
Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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There is more then one reason that leads me to think that the drd on the lotus (and merc as well) works by sucking instead than by blowing.
Given the slot position (both for this year and last year) is on the convex side of the wing lower surface, in order to detach the boundary layer you need to draw in air (thus pulling the stream line down, away from the surface) - if you blow air out of the duct, you are instead helping the flow stay attached.
If one looks at the situation in terms of angle of attack of the wing, it could be seen that sucking into the pipe from below increases the angle of attack, thus leading to stall, whereas blowing would reduce the angle of attack fo the wing section.

You do not need a massive flow to stall the main plane, just a small perturbation is enough.

The low sucked in does not interfere with the engine inlet; it just mixes with the flow in the main pipe of the device, that has its dedicated inlets (ears around airscoop) and outlet.

The big monkey seat is necessary to the system, not because of the downforce it generates, but because of the low pressure at its back. This is drag for the car, but it is necessary evil, since this low pressure gives the driving force to the air to get trough the pipe: this is a good indication of the presence of a bottleneck inside the pipe (a venturi if you like the jargon). You can not push air in a duct with a bottle neck and hope it will accelerate at the throat - you have to pull it from the end of the duct.

We can see how nicely lotus have evolved their system for this year: it does not need the monkey seat, it uses an extension of the engine cover instead. This is just a tilted monkey sit- it is horizontal, but since the flow impacting on this surface has downwash, its relative incidence to the flow is still enough to generate the needed low pressure ot drive the main pipe.
The main pipe is also shorter - to get advantage of the downwash and also to have lower friction losses - it is also lighter which does not hurt.

As I wrote above, you can tune the system by selecting different throat areas inside the main pipe, probably the fine tuning could be made also using wire meshes of different permeability.

If I think the system works this way, everything fits nicely for me; if I try to think it working by blowing, some details do not fit for me: the monkey seat does not have a function, the relative size of the pipes does not have a cause, the fluidic switch inside the duct is difficult to imagine.

I may be wrong, but for now I think the device works like a big Mr Proper spray
twitter: @armchair_aero

flyboy2160
flyboy2160
84
Joined: 25 Apr 2011, 17:05

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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i think shelly's analysis is brilliant! bravo! it's the only one that makes sense to me......

tok-tokkie
tok-tokkie
37
Joined: 08 Jun 2009, 16:21
Location: Cape Town

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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What shelly says seems more plausable to me. What is curious is that Lotus have walked away from all the work they did last year and have 'reversed' the process. OK last year convinced them that idea was really unworkable so they came up with this idea & are starting from more or less zero it seems.

Arunas
Arunas
4
Joined: 29 Oct 2010, 22:14

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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It is doubtfull they need these 2 large air intakes on both sides of engine air intake for sucking air from under the rear wing. That is really not effective solution. In the rear zone of the car there are plenty of low pressure zones to generate adequate suction without paying additional drag of these "ears". Hope, it is clear what I mean. Sorry for my english.

zonk
zonk
69
Joined: 17 Jun 2010, 00:56

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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The other interesting aspect behind the utilisation of such ducts around the airbox is for 'air spillage', over recent seasons this hasn't been a problem as the engine has been continually consuming air (Off Throttle Diffuser Blowing). However now the use of off throttle blowing has been curtailed when the driver lifts out of the throttle the required amount of air entering the airbox inlet isn't so large. This effectively creates a blockage and so the airflow stagnates (builds up) and then cascades over the sides of the engine cover. This type of airflow is disruptive and effects the bodywork aft of the airbox. As this occurs during the braking and turning in phase it's quite an undesirable effect as it reduces the effectiveness of the Rear Wing aswell as any residual effect on downforce the exhaust plume may have. The ducts added to the sides of the airbox inlet act as catchment devices for the airflow during these off throttle moments. This helps to keep airflow heading toward the rear wing uniform resulting in a downforce gain during braking/cornering.

csponton
csponton
7
Joined: 08 Sep 2009, 17:02

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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and openings in the sides of the airbox (ears) that purpose is their function?
shelly wrote:...

korzeniow
korzeniow
24
Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 03:51
Location: Cracow/Poland

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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csponton wrote:and openings in the sides of the airbox (ears) that purpose is their function?
shelly wrote:...
Their purpose is to ruin the low pressure zone created by monkey seat. :lol:

@shelly, your theory doesn't add up.

How could this tiny vertical pipe suck air from under the wing into the pipe which is feed by the air from the ears? The amount of air coming from the ears is significantly bigger than the air that would come from this vertical tiny pipe. There is tremendous pressure in the main pipe. The air will want to come out from the pipe rather than to suck in even more air. "Mixes with the flow in the pipe" doesn't make sense here.

If we assume that there is low pressure zone behind the airbox then it's still connected to the main pipe, not the vertical pipe.

Another point: if you say that the device they presented on last test at Jerez is their newest evolution, so why the monkey seast is tiny, but in your theory you were talking about big monkey seat
It's been a long time since we drove last time, but it has also been a short time at the same time
Roam Grosjean ponders the passing of time on the first day of testing at Jerez
February 5, 2013

blokkie
blokkie
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Joined: 29 Nov 2011, 13:43
Location: Belgium

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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korzeniow wrote:
Their purpose is to ruin the low pressure zone created by monkey seat. :lol:

@shelly, your theory doesn't add up.

How could this tiny vertical pipe suck air from under the wing into the pipe which is feed by the air from the ears? ... <SNIP>
Using thesame principle like sauber did last year with the nose . Now applying to the rear
Image

korzeniow
korzeniow
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Joined: 03 Feb 2010, 03:51
Location: Cracow/Poland

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Thanks @blokkie

So to make this idea work the vertical pipe shouldn't connect with the main pipe in the upstream way, right? So it should turn around 180 degrees within the bigger pipe.

But how fluid swich would work then? That the stalling of the wing happen only with high speeds?
Last edited by korzeniow on 13 Feb 2013, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
It's been a long time since we drove last time, but it has also been a short time at the same time
Roam Grosjean ponders the passing of time on the first day of testing at Jerez
February 5, 2013

User avatar
amouzouris
105
Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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i disagree with shelly as well...apart from finding it impossible for the periscope to suck air...the high pressure airflow coming out of the periscope will NOT attach the airflow to the rear wing...it will F*** up the airflow as it expands making the flow under the central 1/3 of the wing turbulent and robing the downforce thus the drag

blokkie
blokkie
0
Joined: 29 Nov 2011, 13:43
Location: Belgium

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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The air coming out of the periscope is to reduce the air-volume beneath the car.
The airflow above the periscope sucks the air beneath the car out , thus making more room for higher DF.

The advantages of reducing the volume of air from beneath the car probably outweighs the disadvantages of not attaching the airflow.

I agree with shelly , but I don't think the monkey-seat is part of the system.

csponton
csponton
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Joined: 08 Sep 2009, 17:02

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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is this what you mean?
The air intakes on the sides of the airbox ("ears in the case of Lotus, slit for Mercedes) gather a flow of air that is led by means of appropriate internal passages in the end region of the bonnet to be ejected in the area of the monkey seat . in this particular area of the car it will then create a low pressure that is exploited to draw air from the slots and through a tube, inserted inside the central support of the wing, is ejected. and where it is expelled? This low pressure will be created only at high speeds when the air flow rate will have an elevated pressure. In this way, the system will operate in a straight line while when the car has need of downforce (the slower parts) the system will not work because the low pressure that creates us in the area of the Monkey seat will not be such as to "activate" the aspiration. So there would be two separate channeling: the first port that air daii'air box towards the terminal part of the car and the second that draws air from the bottom of the wing profile and exploiting the support of the latter expels. The quantity of sucked air is minimal compared to what comes from the "ears" on the sides of the air box but is such as to create a disturbance in the affected area to create the "stall"

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amouzouris
105
Joined: 14 Feb 2011, 20:21

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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Give me a good reason for not angling the periscope the other way round where it merges with the rest of the tubing

Coefficient
Coefficient
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Joined: 11 Mar 2011, 23:29
Location: North West - UK

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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amouzouris wrote:Give me a good reason for not angling the periscope the other way round where it merges with the rest of the tubing
To conceal the M.O?
"I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it".

csponton
csponton
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Joined: 08 Sep 2009, 17:02

Re: Lotus E21 Renault

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amouzouris wrote:Give me a good reason for not angling the periscope the other way round where it merges with the rest of the tubing
I'm trying to figure out what it says the user @shelly. honestly I did not understand what he meant @shelly