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McLaren and Honda have confirmed that they will form a multi-year Formula 1 technology partnership. From the start of the 2015 season, McLaren's Formula 1 cars will race using Honda engines and energy recovery systems, renewing an association that became one of the most successful and powerful in Formula 1 history during the 1980s and ’90s.
Then again, they would have one year less of on-track data.dren wrote:It would probably benefit Honda to wait out the 2014 season. The technical working group will likely change the power unit regulations after the 2014 season. Honda end up not wasting resources for 2014 that way.
That makes sense to a point. Maybes under the Mugen brand? I can see 2014 being a year of nothing but relyability problems anyways. I do find it intresting that LMP1 and LMP2 will be able to use V6 power as Renault are likley to return with Signature Team for one car and one other team for an assault on LMP2 next year. This will also be data gathering as well for the engine suppliers.Cam wrote:A clean straight split is what everyone will want. When McLaren split with Hamilton, McLaren also lost the beloved and faithfull dog - which hurts. It'll be keen to man up or risk being seen as a soft touch.
Whether or not Honda is ready for 2014 is another story. The last thing they need is to rush in and see failing engines with turbo pieces strewn all over the main straight and poor performance. That said, most engine suppliers run that risk, so if Honda hold out until 2015, they run the risk of loosing valuable track time to develop further. What to do?
A common sense approach would be a 'soft launch' for Honda, say with Marussia. Maybe even un-brand the engines. Honda gets a nice PR story helping the underdog, while saving face if it all goes pear shaped. That's 12 months extra to develop their main engine on the test bed, 12 months developing with track time and 12 months peering into the Mercs donk.
Honda are in the box seat here and I doubt they'll be pushed one way or the other. One customers cash for a F1 engine as opposed to a misfired global branding exercise - is a no brainer to have all your ducks lined up before jumping into anything.
After all, Honda may not be coming in at all.......
This is where it may be a ideal marrage, Honda will learn about ERS and electronic system integration on a power unit, but McLaren learn a great deal about how to make a F1 engine in preperation for a McLaren-McLaren for 2022-2024 when the next F1 engine is due.turbof1 wrote:Then again, they would have one year less of on-track data.dren wrote:It would probably benefit Honda to wait out the 2014 season. The technical working group will likely change the power unit regulations after the 2014 season. Honda end up not wasting resources for 2014 that way.
Can the m-gu's be seperately developed by the individual teams? Honda has little experience in energy recovery systems; McLaren has alot actually, but if Honda has to produce that too, it'll put them at a disadvantage.
Honda can use the time to continue development. Honda developed an in-house KERS system to be used in 2009, but took it with them when they exited F1. They have had hybrid cars on the road for close to 15 years. They may not have the F1 KERS experience that other teams do, but they certainly are not jumping into uncharted territory. The development work on the new NSX will help them as well.turbof1 wrote:Then again, they would have one year less of on-track data.dren wrote:It would probably benefit Honda to wait out the 2014 season. The technical working group will likely change the power unit regulations after the 2014 season. Honda end up not wasting resources for 2014 that way.
Can the m-gu's be seperately developed by the individual teams? Honda has little experience in energy recovery systems; McLaren has alot actually, but if Honda has to produce that too, it'll put them at a disadvantage.
WhiteBlue wrote:At one stage Volökswagen is likely to switch Porsche from LeMans to F1. It is an option that was already build into the LeMans plan. So it is a question of the right conditions in F1 to appear that will cause them to throw that switch. By that I mean the right set of rules and a sensible business proposition. As it stands only Bernie wins and no manufacturer. That has got to change for VW to come on board.
I thought the MP4-12C engine was made by Ricardo? Yes it was specifically developed in a very close partnership, but McLaren do not have the capability to build engines in-house. Also, it's vague how much of the design input came from McLaren or Ricardo, as well as Menard & Mahle. See Joe Saward comment at the bottom of here - http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... n-mclaren/turbof1 wrote:McLaren actually has already experience at building engines, albeit only for the mp4-12c road car. They wanted a very specific engine built for that car, but could not find an engine builder to do so, after which they just built their own one. I think they want to keep f1 engines outsourced to keep costs in check.
The biggest issue with Mclaren not building their own engines is likely money. They took on sizeable debt to fund the sports car side of the business. I expect them to build their own engines in the distant future if the sports car side takes off.richard_leeds wrote:I thought the MP4-12C was made by Ricardo? Yes it was specifically developed in a very close partnership, but McLaren do not have the capability to build engines in-house. Also, it's vague how much of the design input came from McLaren or Ricardo, as well as Menard & Mahle. See Joe Saward comment at the bottom of here - http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... n-mclaren/
Personally, I suspect they have the capability to build their own F1 engine in some joint venture with Ricardo's engine team. that would take a lot of pain though of starring at the bottom of the learning curve, plus a lot of cash. Honda have the advantage of a huge engine development capability so they'll start higher up the learning curve. However even Honda don't have much recent F1 experience so they'll take a few seasons to hit the top.
Thanks for that clarification! I was under the impression they did made the engine in-house (or at the very least designed it completely), so yeah thank you for pointing that out.richard_leeds wrote:I thought the MP4-12C was made by Ricardo? Yes it was specifically developed in a very close partnership, but McLaren do not have the capability to build engines in-house. Also, it's vague how much of the design input came from McLaren or Ricardo, as well as Menard & Mahle. See Joe Saward comment at the bottom of here - http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2012/01/ ... n-mclaren/turbof1 wrote:McLaren actually has already experience at building engines, albeit only for the mp4-12c road car. They wanted a very specific engine built for that car, but could not find an engine builder to do so, after which they just built their own one. I think they want to keep f1 engines outsourced to keep costs in check.
Personally, I suspect they have the capability to build their own F1 engine in some joint venture with Ricardo's engine team. that would take a lot of pain though, they're starting at the bottom of the learning curve, plus a lot of cash. Honda have the advantage of a huge engine development capability so they'll start higher up the learning curve. However even Honda don't have much recent F1 experience so they'll take a few seasons to hit the top.
The Penske Racing is using Chevy's that the main reason why Honda has a hard time...Honda is having a hard time in Indy competing with Chevy. Maybe they will leave Indy and focus on F1.
complete with chocolate cylinders and pistons....Leon wrote:McLaren with Ferrari engine!11