2013 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona

[Dyanxx]

Without a doubt the worst race of the 2013 season, and one of the worst I've seen since Pirelli entered the sport, I don't understand why they're struggling so much, instead of improving with each season they've been in F1,they're going backwards.

[Blackout]

What's the Mercedes qualy "trick"?

Yeah, it seems strange when they suck on the race next day. Blame Pirelli?

Yeah blame Pirelli... lol
RBR might have the right to blame Pirelli, but not Mercedes.
This year's Merc is not the first Merc that is fast in qualy and weak in race. It's definitely not Pirelli's fault. Even in 2010, they very rarely were faster than the Renault (that sucked in qualy) in race pace. And in 2011 and 2012 Merc got worse and worse.

[komninosm]

Again you are focussing too much on the story and not on the message. He basicilly said tyres made the sport random, which I agree with; it's just madning that you have front grid lockout, but fall back to sixth and twelfth just because the tyres aren't working. We had on average 4 to 5 stops. 4 to 5 stops, that's just too much. Racing should be decided on track, not in the pits!

I'd much rather have the old Schumacher era back. Back then we had one car dominating the field. This race we had one car dominating the field, with the addition that the field was not brutally fighting eachother, but asking with a frightened voice over the radio of they are allowed to defend their position.

1. This is your prediction before the race:
"I think hamilton first, vettel second, and rosberg thirth."
No, there's nothing random about results this season (and season before for that matter) but if your starting point is something like that you are bound to feel confused. I suggest you stop listening to salesman like Brundle and actually watch the races.

2. I see the insanity about tyres and golden era continues. Yes, only lack of Bridgestones and refuelling is standing in the way of brilliant racing in F1. FFS it was exactly the opposite. It's really like some alternative reality where memories were zeroed Men in Black style. Virtually nothing in this thread about actual current sport and Barcelona race, only uninformed back-patting of self proclaimed "veterans". The only reason for it - MY FAVOURITE DRIVER HAD A SHITTY RACE, HE WAS WINNING ON BRIDGESTONES SO IF THEY BRING THEM BACK EVERYTHING WILL BE WELL. Oh dear, what a waste of time to read it. Soon enough 2009 or 2011 will be some F1 classic season. Speaking of 2009, remember SPA? Very RANDOM results thanks to TEMPERATURES AND TYRES, faster FI stuck behind gizmo KERS defending Ferrari, fastest RB qualifying in 9th or sth. Oh the good old Bridgestone days. 2006 or Schumacher era great? What are you guys drinking/taking?

Yes...
MY FAVOURITE DRIVER HAD A SHITTY RACE, HE WAS WINNING ON BRIDGESTONES SO IF THEY BRING THEM BACK EVERYTHING WILL BE WELL.
Yes...
That was exactly andartop's point too, oh wait it wasn't, he's a Ferrari supporter through and through and yet he disagrees with you.

Here's why. F1 is not only about the number of overtakes. Overtakes are not the end all of F1. Racing is. We don't like to see people coasting and EVERYTHING (I can use caps too duh) depends on one part of the car, the tires, the part that the car teams don't actually make. That makes sense... NOT!

[radosav]

If you think I am a fanboy, you are badly mistaken. I find it kind of insulting you are trying to pin it on that, while it was nothing more then an example. Vettel had a Marussia chasing him down. When Raikkonen took Vett'ls position, Vettel was told not to defend. I do not know about you, but every one of us would have loved Vettel to defend his position to the teeth, not watching himself getting too much on the marbles when he very galantly let Raikkonen past.

The race was littered with similar situations. The only time we had nice hard fights were at the start. It was also inmediately the end of the race, because all else was driving around a circuit, not racing, but nursing tyres.

I also don't want the Schumacher era back; what I am getting at was that that era was better then this one. Which it is; even with refueling

The real question is how many races until now were the same as yesterdays race but you weren't aware that drivers aren't pushing 100% and racing eachother because FOM didn't broadcast radio messages of drivers complaining about tyres!

[PABLOEING]

In 2011 all the races was with 3-4 stop in boxes during the race....and REB bull in that time no speak about tyres.

[muhammadtalha-13]

In F1, whether a team is winning or loosing should depend on their car i.e. how good a team's car is. Tyres are not made by teams so it's tyre manufacturer's fault.

I heard some people saying that it's a designers job to design a car around some variables which are unchangeable. Do you think the tyres this year are unchangeable? They are not. In one race, tyres work well but in the next, they just don't. Like Chinese GP this year. A team wins in one race but in the next, same team is struggling with tyres so what teams can do in this kind of situation?

[komninosm]

What's the Mercedes qualy "trick"?

Yeah, it seems strange when they suck on the race next day. Blame Pirelli?

Yeah blame Pirelli... lol
RBR might have the right to blame Pirelli, but not Mercedes.
This year's Merc is not the first Merc that is fast in qualy and weak in race. It's definitely not Pirelli's fault. Even in 2010, they very rarely were faster than the Renault (that sucked in qualy) in race pace. And in 2011 and 2012 Merc got worse and worse.

I don't remember Merc doing pole positions in 2010 or 2011. They only did one in 2012, in China, and Rosberg won that race so umm what was your point?

[motobaleno]

I LOVE THIS F1!

[muhammadtalha-13]

In 2011 all the races was with 3-4 stop in boxes during the race....and REB bull in that time no speak about tyres.

Because that time, no team was struggling with tyres this much. If RedBull were fast in 2011, they were because of their EBD And off throttle blowing, not beacause they were kind on their tyres.

[komninosm]

If you think I am a fanboy, you are badly mistaken. I find it kind of insulting you are trying to pin it on that, while it was nothing more then an example. Vettel had a Marussia chasing him down. When Raikkonen took Vett'ls position, Vettel was told not to defend. I do not know about you, but every one of us would have loved Vettel to defend his position to the teeth, not watching himself getting too much on the marbles when he very galantly let Raikkonen past.

The race was littered with similar situations. The only time we had nice hard fights were at the start. It was also inmediately the end of the race, because all else was driving around a circuit, not racing, but nursing tyres.

I also don't want the Schumacher era back; what I am getting at was that that era was better then this one. Which it is; even with refueling

The real question is how many races until now were the same as yesterdays race but you weren't aware that drivers aren't pushing 100% and racing eachother because FOM didn't broadcast radio messages of drivers complaining about tyres!

There's been a lot of people in this forum and elsewhere that have been complaining about drivers coasting instead of racing for a long time. We didn't wait for FOM to broadcast the bleedin obvious.
I think it's more of a situation with people being patient and saying to themselves "OK they will fix this --- eventually" and eventually more and more people are disillusioned and start to say "enough already".
It certainly didn't start yesterday.

[komninosm]

I LOVE THIS F1!

We used to fill up 50-70 pages every GP here and argue about what drivers did to each other and who should get penalty or what and get forum bans and suspensions for our pathos or bad attitude.

Now we argue over Pirelli tires and barely fill 20-odd pages. There may be more overtakes, but there's less racing.

[Anon123]

I LOVE THIS F1!

We used to fill up 50-70 pages every GP here and argue about what drivers did to each other and who should get penalty or what and get forum bans and suspensions for our pathos or bad attitude.

Now we argue over Pirelli tires and barely fill 20-odd pages. There may be more overtakes, but there's less racing.

Not real overtakes either, drivers rarely defend and everyone is just racing to achieve the best race time they can rather than trying to beat their opponents.

[motobaleno]

to get in topic and talk about the race, I think that this gp has clearly indicated that it's not only lotus that is tyre efficient, it is kimi that has a very personal driving style: remarkably fluent and "soft" keeping speed inside corners without hard braking and accelerating.
his camera car were impressive in this sense

[turbof1]

We told the same about Button a few years ago. He got nowhere with his 3 stop strategy.

Some concern about tyre management is fine. Pitstops are there for a reason. However, more pitstops should also mean drivers can push their cars without worrying about the tyres. We didn't had that at Barcelona; teams were coasting trying to make the best out of the situation.

The tyres need to change. That is unfair towards Lotus and Ferrari, who did good. However, with 9 other teams struggling in such a way, you can no longer make a case of it that they got it wrong. Those 2 teams will probably keep their advantage if pirelli makes more endurable tyres, just with 1 stop less.

[iotar__]

Tyre situation was extreme but only in a way of amplifying the trends. So if they have to adjust it they should, if the failures can happen they should adjust too, these are new tyres after all. But there was nothing apart from crappy race by Hamilton and RBs to justify the hysteria.

I guess I watched different race than most people here. What I saw was a brilliant win by the best driver in F1. At last some equilibrium in the world of F1 occupied recently by RB fraud . I hope it continues that way. The move on Raikkonen/Hamilton was simply sensational, this is how a driver makes a difference. This is also why Vettel collision happened, Alonso is aggressive and takes risks early on. Yes it was rather boring, it's Barcelona after all.

Only bit missing was a bit of a competition. I'm not buying this Lotus did not have pace, even the team is not that certain about it. What about China or Bahrain? How about for once I would like to find out about it little later than after first couple of laps? How about not losing positions at the start, how about some quicker overtaking? They were also lucky Massa had a penalty.