2013 German GP - Nurburgring

[iotar__]

RG couldn't pass SV because he's not as good a driver, his car's not as good, and he was on the same tires. My thinking is that if KR had been waved past RG as soon as he'd caught up, he'd have been on fresher options when he caught SV and had a few more opportunities for a (lame but effective) DRS pass. Again, this is all speculation in hindsight. I don't fault Lotus for making the call they made at that point (I do fault them for some calls earlier in the race). Regardless, it's a good result for SV, and a decent result for KR, and RG. I thought it was fun to watch.

Well RG was a better driver in this race than Kimi. I don't think you can say he couldnt pass because he's no good.
None of them stood a chance. The redbull's potential was being hindered by the tyres from the start of the season.
If you put better tyres on it, then more of the potential will be revealed.

What exactly makes you say that on two occasions Lotus didn't waste a chance to fight for a win and wouldn't have been able to challenge RB? Two factors already mentioned:
- first stint when faster driver was held up losing time on softs, being close and possibly in front of Vettel was possible
- second time choosing right strategy for a driver who was slower on softs and horrible for a second driver:

And from spinmasters at work: (http://pitpass.com/49483-German-GP-Race-notes-Lotus):
"We expected slightly more performance from his final set of soft tyres, but he was right with Seb at the end." - understatement of the century. I said it already many times. My translation: we knew what kind of advantage softs gave, we knew what pace mediums had after we used one of our drivers as a guinea pig for tyres (very early stop, this one is debatable), we were counting for a win, Raikkonen didn't have the pace.

"The redbull's potential was being hindered by the tyres from the start of the season." There's little to back this blanket statement up and anyway it's meaningless to discussion about this particular race. My answer: if they can perform well now using the same tyres, tyres weren't the factor that was limiting them in the first place. Simple.

Judged by time measuring machines Lotus had every chance to at least fight for the win here. About KERS problems (I don't know how long it lasted), yes it was a factor but circumstances like starting from the pole, running in free air, not having to deal with Rosberg or Hamilton were also factors.

More from here http://pitpass.com/49483-German-GP-Race-notes-Lotus and earlier:
E.B.: "They are racing each other to the point where they are not holding up the other one [..]" - Outright lie, see first stop on softs and Raikkonen holding Grosjean

"Kimi was held up by Lewis [Hamilton] after his first pit stop" - meaningless repeated, fact of the century, What did it matter when it was only a safety car that bailed you out, gap was bigger than lost time anyway. Vettel and Grosjean were held after third pitstop.

May I add omissions of the century:
"We robbed Grosjean (and ourselves) of a victory (or a chance for victory)"
"We gifted Red Bull a win"

[Chuckjr]

What happened with Massa? Car or driver fail?

[andartop]

Both! Apparently he made a mistake and spun, but then could not get back on track as his gearbox was stuck in 5th gear.

source:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108659

Another race to forget for Felipe...

[turbof1]

Could the gearbox defect be related to Massa's merry-go-round? I can't imagine dropping revs and speed that abruptly is good for the gearbox, although admittingly I don't really know much about that stuff.

[MOWOG]

Sure are a lot of opinions floating around here, so let me offer mine:

This race is exactly as Bernie drew it up in his mind last fall when he told Pirelli to "spice up" the action by mucking about with the tires and the compounds for 2013. For most viewers, they saw a terrific fight to the finish between Vettel and Raikonnen.

Maybe one or more teams made bad strategy calls during the race, but that is what Bernie et al want - races determined by strategy, not outright pace. Ideally, every race should end with the first and second place car crossing the finish line in a virtual dead heat.

One can argue whether such a result is a sport or a show until the cows come home, but the fact of the matter is that what we saw today is precisely the result Bernie wants. After all, those Azerbaijanis aren't going to pony up millions and millions of Euros just to watch a high speed processional when Formula One comes to town in a few years!

Steve Matchett on NBC was so excited during the last 4 laps, I thought he was gonna bust a garter. Whether your man or team won, you have to say, it WAS exciting because the outcome was in doubt right up until the final few corners. THAT'S racing. Or at least what most ordinary fans would define as racing. :-"

[FrukostScones]

Did the german guy (cant remember name) who were doing the Q&A openly ask Vettel how does it feel to have Kimi as team mate next year? Sound like its a done deal or something?

Kai Ebel from RTL. A terrible person. As one would expect he behaved the idiot he is. That question had no place in a podium celebration. Seb was irritated and I believe a bit angry as well. A podium is supposed to be celebration and about the race, not about silly season. It is obviously not decided or at least not free for publication.

so he is a "terrible person", but maybe he just a good journalist, eh...

[WhiteBlue]

RG couldn't pass SV because he's not as good a driver, his car's not as good, and he was on the same tires. My thinking is that if KR had been waved past RG as soon as he'd caught up, he'd have been on fresher options when he caught SV and had a few more opportunities for a (lame but effective) DRS pass. Again, this is all speculation in hindsight. I don't fault Lotus for making the call they made at that point (I do fault them for some calls earlier in the race). Regardless, it's a good result for SV, and a decent result for KR, and RG. I thought it was fun to watch.

Well RG was a better driver in this race than Kimi. I don't think you can say he couldnt pass because he's no good.
None of them stood a chance. The redbull's potential was being hindered by the tyres from the start of the season.
If you put better tyres on it, then more of the potential will be revealed.

I thought that Grosjean's race engineering was the only one of the top drivers of this race who got the opening stint right. All others threw away performance from the tyres by pitting too early when they were still quicker than they were later on the new set. Obviously all very concerned what the opposition did and not really analyzing their own performance, except for Grosjean. He did very well for 14 laps on the soft tyres and it gave him nice track position as a reward. Unfortunately the last pit call was the opposite in terms of the right strategy.

[Mandrake]

No but don't you find it strange? We had so many people claiming before the race how much progress Mercedes has made since the test. Now that that theory has been put to test and failed, I really do not hope they come back with an excuse. Mercedes did made some small gains from it, but nowhere near what people make it look like.

If you come to think about it, Merc was pretty amazing on the "old" tires right after Pirelli's test, now that the tires have changed, they're back where they belong. Sounds like they were not prepared for the "new" tires and are not able to solve tire problems quickly without testing. So basically this race underlined what kind of an advantage that test might have been.

Of course, it could also just have been the hot weather hampering them, who knows

I really regret now not having gone to the GP....I would have sat at the NGC Chicane, right where Bianchi's car rolled away etc. I thought racing would be boring with the tire saving going on, but just like MOWOG I really enjoyed watching the race. Especially in the beginning where Hamilton was fighting with Kimi, you could see him driving the car at 110%, pretty cool to watch. I just hope the tire saving GPs wont return.

[Hail22]

It could just be me...but today's race felt like a processional event.

I hope from this event the FIA seriously reviews all the photographers / camera crews being so close to the cars / pit crews without the proper safety equipment (safety glasses, helmet, fireproof suit etc).

[iotar__]

I thought that Grosjean's race engineering was the only one of the top drivers of this race who got the opening stint right. All others threw away performance from the tyres by pitting too early when they were still quicker than they were later on the new set. Obviously all very concerned what the opposition did and not really analyzing their own performance, except for Grosjean. He did very well for 14 laps on the soft tyres and it gave him nice track position as a reward. Unfortunately the last pit call was the opposite in terms of the right strategy.[/quote]
Good points but imo this had less to do with race engineer's decision but more with Lotus's pace on softs. Others weren't throwing away advantage but were forced by track position or unknown pace. Old softs/new mediums ratio. I can agree that time Grosjean spent after Raikkonen wasn't very long (laps 5-8 should be about right?) but it was a lost time nevertheless. Considering that KR ended up behind Mercedes after first stop his pace wasn't great and at the end of the stint time losses are the biggest. Were they in the position to give him free space knowing the pace? Unlikely decision but why not, if only for 2 laps. Academic discussion, judging by what happened later they wouldn't have done it anyway. This one is OK, third pitstop - criminal.

Secondly and it's more important his advantage of pace and length of the first stint and consequently possible length of two other stints was nullified by safety car. That's six more laps to play with in comparison to Vettel. Another argument that Lotus could fight Red Bulls.

[CHT]

I am curious if Kimi would have won this race if Lotus switch him over to soft tires about 2 laps earlier?

[WhiteBlue]

I am curious if Kimi would have won this race if Lotus switch him over to soft tires about 2 laps earlier?

They made the mistake in qualifying by using up all the options and not keeping a fresh set as Alonso did. It would have given Kimi the edge he was missing.

[mx_tifoso]

It was a decent race but very predictable, and it was sad to see Raikkonen and Alonso so slow towards the end when they should have been going much quicker than those in front of them. Had Raikkonen caught Vettel it would have been amazing!

And seeing Vettel win and get closer to a fourth championship makes me sick, as fanboyish as that sounds. If the fourth is won I think I may be done with F1.

[Hail22]

It was a decent race but very predictable, and it was sad to see Raikkonen and Alonso so slow towards the end when they should have been going much quicker than those in front of them. Had Raikkonen caught Vettel it would have been amazing!

And seeing Vettel win and get closer to a fourth championship makes me sick, as fanboyish as that sounds. If the fourth is won I think I may be done with F1.

Hear Hear!

I cannot envisage myself following F1 at the conclusion of the 2013 season, its just becoming too artificial.

The WEC is looking more road relevant / lucrative for future investment / sponsorship especially for 2014 with the new regs coming into effect.

[max_speed]

Lotus continue to be a joke with their shooting in the foot approach. Grosjean lost a lot of time behind Raikkonen on softs and should have been in front of Vettel before the safety car - in free air, controlling the pace. Why the hell did they pit him so early? Instead of keeping him as long as possible on mediums and switching to softs? Then of course he was stuck behind Vettel again.

This time:
- lack of team order on one end - at least several seconds lost on softs, not to mention being in front and setting the pace
- safety car - 10 s
- horrible strategy for one driver and better for the other, they put Raikkonen just behind with better tyres
- regular team orders, going for record fifth (Hungary if you have any doubts were too) time in 1,5 season, Raikkonen king of team orders
Lotus basically threw away chance for the win.

It was simply a sabotage, no amount of team orders and carrying by the team will help their inept lead driver. Any doubts now that they haven't touched car's potential this season? I had to watch it on Sky and their tools appropriately missed most of that and were surprised with the outcome, probably too busy inventing Vergne to Lotus rumour instead (again fittingly ridiculous for this joke of a team).

i think Lotus is fighting a lost battle they r playing around kimi and somehow wants to convince him to stay in team though he would be going to redbull for sure. focusing to much on kimi has coasted them a win today. i think grosjean and kimi both had a realistic chance of win today . initially grojn lost lot of time behind kimi though he was faster and could have attacked vettel and they pitted him early so that raikonen can lead and then comes the blunder, they tried to amend things they did last sunday by nt changing tyres and called raikonen in..he could have finished race on same tyres and it ws nt that easy to pass cars over here.. wht a shame teams keep gifting redbull a easy win and again i ws surprised Webber got a superb start bt as usual redbull corrected the mistake in pitstop