2013 Hungarian GP - Hungaroring

[henra]

http://i.imgur.com/I7gzWcs.jpg

Interesting.
Vettel lost the 10s immediately when he was stuck behind Button after the first pit stop. He lost another 1 or 2s behind Button after the second pit stop. And at the end the steeper curve comes to a halt when he got stuck behind Kimi.

Same holds true for Kimi with Massa.

That makes things look a bit less comfortable for Merc when looking closer at it.

Next races will be interesting...

[beelsebob]

http://i.imgur.com/I7gzWcs.jpg

Interesting.
Vettel lost the 10s immediately when he was stuck behind Button after the first pit stop. He lost another 1 or 2s behind Button after the second pit stop. And at the end the steeper curve comes to a halt when he got stuck behind Kimi.

Same holds true for Kimi with Massa.

That makes things look a bit less comfortable for Merc when looking closer at it.

Next races will be interesting...

Yep, Vettel literally lost the race by not passing button the first time. Hamilton won it by passing him.

The interesting thing is that we know that the Merc was going at least half a second slower a lap than it could have done towards the end. I would love to know how much more pace both Hamilton and Vettel had if it came down to it.

[LionKing]

Actually it's more because you have to leave space on corner entry but not on corner exit. Webber had plenty of room at the apex, he lost the corner and so had to fall in behind hamilton.

I don't agree. Lewis move is OK because as one poster said his car was fully in front otherwise he can not just squeeze his competitor out of track.

Vettel's car was inside and a bit ahead as well but he was still penalized for putting Alonso out of track in Monza.

%80 of Rosberg's car was ahead of Massa when they touched in this race however from one perspective it was clear that Rosberg kept moving inside till the contact.

Similarly, Lewis's car was partially in front too at Spa when he drifted into Kobayashi's path outside and it was all Lewis's fault.
“After watching the replay, I realise it was my fault today 100%. I didn’t give Kobayashi enough room though I thought in was past. Apologies to Kamui and to my team. The team deserves better from me.”

Kobayashi said: “After he overtook me it was not my intention to get my position back, so I stayed on my line and didn’t expect him to move over.”

[iotar__]

Funny: Hamilton pushes Webber off the track, local commentator: "he's given him some space but just not enough". Yeah like zero space, off the track or crash.

If you watch the pass from on-board with Webber, you'll see that Hamilton was fully in front of Webber by at least half a car's length before he moves across towards the outside of the track. Webber went on to the dirty stuff all by himself.

Bullshit applies to all the other replies and yes I re-watched several times BEFORE writing it:
- "fully in front" when? in the middle of the corner, what fully in front is that? Even if he was but without the possibility to finish the corner (you know speed, direction) it means nothing, overtake is far from complete.
- "left enough space at the apex" (or wherever) - this one is funniest - yes, because there was the other car next to him, he didn't "leave the space", he put himself next/in front (front wheels) of the car he was overtaking, he was the one overtaking remember?
- "clearly in front" same as above
- "claim the corner" what does it even mean? He didn't claim the "corner" until Webber went off the track, do you think he did it willingly?
- "Normal line" - no, he changed from line next to Webber, to normal one when there was no space for two cars, that's not normal line, that's called overtake with forcing the issue and relying on reaction of the other driver - slow down, go off the track or we collide

I can't believe I'm describing obvious move. Overtake isn't over in the middle of the corner, he wasn't fully in front until he pushed Webber out of the track, if Webber hadn't left the track there would have been a collision, simple as that. How is that even debatable? There was no place for two cars when Hamilton was aiming, he relied fully on Webber's reaction to leave the track. He knew exactly what he was doing. I think I'll start posting picture with Ham never fully in front until Webber left the track. [I'm not complaining or calling for penalties but that's what happened.]

[Hail22]

I've got water on my boots xD hahaha

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfYP2VITJqY[/youtube]

[SiLo]

Hamilton said he was cruising for a lot of the race so I still think he would have won, Vettel may have been faster but Hamilton was a lot faster on the straight (10kmh) so even with DRS it would have been a huge struggle for Vettel to get past.

[Juzh]

Hamilton said he was cruising for a lot of the race so I still think he would have won, Vettel may have been faster but Hamilton was a lot faster on the straight (10kmh) so even with DRS it would have been a huge struggle for Vettel to get past.

Hamilton won the race on saturday. It's pretty clear now.

[raymondu999]

Hamilton said he was cruising for a lot of the race so I still think he would have won, Vettel may have been faster but Hamilton was a lot faster on the straight (10kmh) so even with DRS it would have been a huge struggle for Vettel to get past.

The question with Pirellis is whether he was cruising because he had a comfy gap - or whether he had to cruise. While Hamilton had spare pace, I agree - I don't think that spare pace would manifest itself through the entire stint, because as the race unfolded, his end-of-race pace was better than it would have been had he pushed

[komninosm]

http://i.imgur.com/I7gzWcs.jpg

I don't understand this diagram.
x axis is laps
what is y axis? seconds compared to who?

[henra]

http://i.imgur.com/I7gzWcs.jpg

I don't understand this diagram.
x axis is laps
what is y axis? seconds compared to who?

It's a bit tricky to explain. I'll try my best, nontheless:

y-axis represents the winner's cumulativ race average.
Horizontal Line: Average Lap time of race winner.
The lines show cumulative time lost/gained.
The incline of the curve shows the actual lap time compared to the average lap time.
Positive angle: Lap was faster than Lewis' race average. E.g. 3s gained in 5 laps. So These 3 laps were each 0,6s faster than the average lap time of Lewis over the whole race.

[iotar__]

Since apparently I watched something different it has come to this :
1. Normal lines and pushing off. Perspective is not perfect, it's too flat but the point stands, no place for two cars. Just check direction of the car. MW could easily have made a corner (speed and position).









2. Other perspective. Hulkenberg as a reference point for normal line, LH didn't touch the kerb (because the other car was there):




BTW, at which point is Hamlton "fully in front"? Certainly not before he pushes Webber off.

[LionKing]

It looks like you may be right Iotar.

The video I watched was with one with Alonso in front of the pair. Obviously this is the other pass. I don't think I watched any onboard video of this.

[NathanOlder]

http://i.imgur.com/LgsK0wU.jpg

But as this photo clearly shows, Lewis' line was compromised due to webber being there (clearly shown by the difference in lines between Lewis and the Sauber.

We ALL know that if your car has atlease 2 wheels touching a white line, your classed as on the track (Grosjean's incident with Massa clarifies this)

Lewis left enough room for Mark to keep 2 wheels on the track, let alone the white line.

Webber just chose not to run over the kerb, (his problem)

Webbers choices were, Stay on the circuit (2 wheels , as stated by the rules), Back off and concede the place, Or swing out wider than the kerb and tuck back in behind Lewis.

[beelsebob]

Look, the bottom line is that the Stewards, for whatever reason, have decide that it's a valid move to push someone wide on the exit of the corner. Button did it to Perez in Bahrain, Hamilton did it to Webber here, Webber did it to Vettel in Malaysia, Massa did it to Grosjean no one was penalised for the act of pushing wide.

I don't really get how that aligns with the rules (which say you don't push someone off track, ever), but that apparently is how the Stewards want to enforce it. Beyond that, there's little to argue.

[strad]

I just dropped in, BUT,,At frame 3 above Hamilton is clearly alongside and by 5 has an overlap and at 7 is ahead