2013 Korean Grand Prix

[Juzh]

Well that was kinda the point. People were dissing vettel (hungary comes to mind) because he couldn't overtake cars sometimes with his dreadfully slow red bull in straight line. The same people were saying how Hamilton and Alonso could overtake while completely ignoring their car's massive top speed advantage (hamilton had +16kph !!! over vettel in hungary). Finally roles got reversed and what did we see from ham or alo? Nothing! Stuck behind a faster straight line car pretty much the entire race.

It was hardly his top speed that allowed him to get past Webber twice in Hungary.

It was exactly that top speed that allowed hamilton to close in on webber and put him in a position to overtake.

There was absolutely no reason for Vettel to not get past cars in other places in Hungary which Grosjean and Hamilton proved time and time again.

Oh, but there were reasons. How about constantly overheating vettel's RB9, forcing him to keep distance to button. There's also 292kph revved out ratios which was about the same as un-drsed button in front.

Grosejan lol? He couldn't pass vettel who was struggling with overheating Rb9 and malfunctioning kers for the first 1/2 of the race. Then couldn't pass alonso for another 1/2. He only passed massa and button when their tyres had gone off.

Both Grosjean and Hamilton passed in places where top speed was irrelevant.
Yes it´s true Hamilton had one DRS pass, just like Vettel but what won that race was not DRS or top speed, it was pure overtakes from Hamilton.

That drs overtake with 308 top speed was exactly the reason why. Otherwise he'd be stuck behind button as well and possibly be victim of undercuts.

I love how you ignore the fact that even though Vettel had lower top speed that he had huge advantages in other areas.

HOW is that different to ham or alo this week? They both had massively faster cars than hulk over the lap but could do sh1t with them.

[komninosm]

Anybody think that a Lewis 2-3 years ago would not have let Grosjean get the better of him and also maybe found a way past Hulkenberg?

Lol, yeah he would add some straight line speed with his hands

I'm not talking straight line speed genius I'm talking through the other sectors, perhaps he would have taken some more risk, more aggressive. I certainly don't believe he would have allowed Grosjean to get the better of him either. As mentioned possibly it's the tyres.

Technically Hamilton did pass Hulk once, but Hulk passed him back in the straight because the DRS zone wasn't designed cleverly.

Did you guys see this, Hamilton's thoughts about the race?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24419864

I will give Hamilton, "the most arrogant driver of the year" award. I like him but he is loosing it.

What are you on about? I didn't see anything arrogant in there.

[SectorOne]

It was exactly that top speed that allowed hamilton to close in on webber and put him in a position to overtake.

No it wasn´t because Hamilton made a pass on Webber straight after he got out of the pits.
He was 50 meters behind Webber into T2.

Oh, but there were reasons. How about constantly overheating vettel's RB9, forcing him to keep distance to button. There's also 292kph revved out ratios which was about the same as un-drsed button in front.

It never overheated instantly. Vettel had several areas he could pull of the pass but he just did not go through with it.
Button even left the door open once into T2.

Grosejan lol? He couldn't pass vettel who was struggling with overheating Rb9 and malfunctioning kers for the first 1/2 of the race. Then couldn't pass alonso for another 1/2. He only passed massa and button when their tyres had gone off.

And yet he passed Button like it was nothing compared to Vettel. Funny how things work out.
Also think about your last sentence a bit because Vettel did the same. Don´t throw rocks in a glasshouse.

That drs overtake with 308 top speed was exactly the reason why. Otherwise he'd be stuck behind button as well and possibly be victim of undercuts.

Since the majority of his overtakes was done far far away from any DRS zone it would be stupid to think he would not be able to pass Button in any other area. Areas where the Red Bull of Mark is far far stronger.

HOW is that different to ham or alo this week? They both had massively faster cars than hulk over the lap but could to sh1t with them.

How it´s different? Well i´m pretty sure it´s a different track, different country for starters.
Hungary does not have 3 mega straights and not two DRS zones either.

[raymondu999]

Did you guys see this, Hamilton's thoughts about the race?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24419864

I will give Hamilton, "the most arrogant driver of the year" award. I like him but he is loosing it.

But he is right though..

I'm a big fan of F1, but this Vettel dominance is too much..
it is killing the sport..

Dominance does not kill sports. Dominance kills shows. Fact.

[komninosm]

HOW is that different to ham or alo this week? They both had massively faster cars than hulk over the lap but could do sh1t with them.

I guess the difference is that Hulk had great acceleration out of a corner just like Red Bull has. He didn't have straight line speed advantage. So it's different cases and your point is moot.
Even though I felt exactly the same as you when I first saw it. Initially I too mentally compared Hamilton unable to pass Hulk to Vettel. On second thought, it's quite different.
Also Hamilton did pass Hulk only to be repassed on the silly DRS zone after it.

[Juzh]

@sectorone
Had an entire post ready but decided it's not worth it. You proved time and time again talking to you is like talking to a wall. Vettel even admited defeat after hungary, while your beloved hamilton is moaning about everything in every fricken interview since his "best victory of all time". He really should look at himself from time to time.

@komninosm
Why is different? traction alone is not enough to keep you ahead if you have a slow top end as DRSed cars will catch up to you. But so what? He was fast ENOUGH to keep them behind and they could do jack sh1t about it even though ham's car was probably 1.5-2s faster in race trim than sauber. Tryed and failed.
And ham was re-passed before drs activation.

[SectorOne]

@sectorone
Had an entire post ready but decided it's not worth it. You proved time and time again talking to you is like talking to a wall. Vettel even admited defeat after hungary, while your beloved hamilton is moaning about everything in every fricken interview since his "best victory of all time". He really should look at himself from time to time.

Oh i think the problem is you having trouble giving credit where credit is due.

Also reading your post here, it´s obvious your problem is with Hamilton and not me. I´m not Hamilton in case you missed that bit.
It´s quite clear you have a hatred towards Hamilton and so when people want to discuss a race objectively and mentions him you go on the defensive and act as if i´m Hamilton.
You should take a strong look at yourself here and more importantly the post you just wrote.

You also seem to see what you want to see. Hamilton has put loads of praise on Vettel all season saying he deserve every bit of the success he´s enjoying (even though Vettel made some retarded comments to the media that would make you think he´s starting to lose touch with reality, same sort of comment Pirelli-Paul made about Alonso which he then excused himself for)

And so you can sleep better tonight, yes i do think Vettel has been the best driver this year. No question about it.
Quite the difference from last year where i rated him at 4th best.

[Juzh]

Oh i think the problem is you having trouble giving credit where credit is due.

hahaha, as if people would give vet credit where it is due. This goes both ways. When Vet wins its all down to the car, never to his driving skills. But when hamilton wins, it was always purely because of him and his brilliance. Give me a break.

[raymondu999]

Also Hamilton did pass Hulk only to be repassed on the silly DRS zone after it.

Factual correction - Hulk passed Hamilton before The DRS zone

[SectorOne]

Oh i think the problem is you having trouble giving credit where credit is due.

hahaha, as if people would give vet credit where it is due. This goes both ways. When Vet wins its all down to the car, never to his driving skills. But when hamilton wins, it was always purely because of him and his brilliance. Give me a break.

Am i people?

Who are you even discussing with honestly? I´m not your psychiatrist here.
Quite obviously the car is superior and quite obviously is Vettel in the Top 4 bracket like Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen.
But that´s my opinion, maybe you should discuss with "people" instead of me.

I also love the fact that you won´t give Hamilton credit because people don´t give Vettel credit.
That pretty much sums it all up.

Lauda said it the best. Mercedes did not win in Hungary, Hamilton did.
In Singapore he said similar things about Vettel. Can´t remember the exact words but it was exactly the same praise he did for Hamilton in Hungary. Two mega drives.
Unbiased and honest.

[Jonnycraig]

No it wasn´t because Hamilton made a pass on Webber straight after he got out of the pits.
He was 50 meters behind Webber into T2.

DRS + brand new tyres do wonders.

It never overheated instantly. Vettel had several areas he could pull of the pass but he just did not go through with it.
Button even left the door open once into T2.

Which areas could Vettel have pulled off an easy pass in a car slower with DRS than the one infront?

And yet he passed Button like it was nothing compared to Vettel. Funny how things work out.

Double DRS and a 16kph higher top speed. Funny how things work out.

Since the majority of his overtakes was done far far away from any DRS zone it would be stupid to think he would not be able to pass Button in any other area. Areas where the Red Bull of Mark is far far stronger.

He overtook both Button & Webber at the end of the Double DRS zone.

.Hungary does not have 3 mega straights and not two DRS zones either.

Hungary had two DRS zones straight after each other.

[SectorOne]

DRS + brand new tyres do wonders.

Stone cold tires and he´s still a looong way behind Webber into T2.
He was not right behind him which Vettel was on Button for example.

Which areas could Vettel have pulled off an easy pass in a car slower with DRS than the one infront?

The place he actually did it maybe. He passed outside of any DRS zone and he passed in a DRS zone.
And you completely disregards the fact that Hamilton was further away from Webber then Vettel was from Button into T2.

Double DRS and a 16kph higher top speed. Funny how things work out.

Grosjean got past Button on the other side of the track. You don´t have much memory of the actual race i can see.

He overtook both Button & Webber at the end of the Double DRS zone.

Button he passed in the DRS zone, like Vettel.
With Webber it was outside DRS zones.
He was actually quite far away on both occasions and made up ground in the actual corner itself.

Hungary had two DRS zones straight after each other.

Point taken but second one was the size of my forearm, completely useless really.

[komninosm]

@komninosm
Why is different? traction alone is not enough to keep you ahead if you have a slow top end as DRSed cars will catch up to you. But so what? He was fast ENOUGH to keep them behind and they could do jack sh1t about it even though ham's car was probably 1.5-2s faster in race trim than sauber. Tryed and failed.
And ham was re-passed before drs activation.

It's different because of the reasons I pointed out. Why does it have to be the same? Why are you so obsessed? I didn't say it was worse or better (in regards to who is a lacking driver). I merely said it was different. I also said I sympathized with your point of view as I initially shared it too. But boy, you can't let go of anything can you?

I don't think Ham's car was 2 seconds faster than Hulks. Maybe Vettel's was, but nobody else's.
I do think Hamilton should have out-breaked Hulk more often in more places. Or break earlier and go for a better exit. He seemed to end up way to close to Hulk's car on the turn apexes. At least that's how it seemed to me. I'm no expert.

Regarding the re-pass here's what Hulk said:
"That's why I didn't even close the door," he said. "If you go there you have marbles on the tyres and I knew I only had to get a good exit out of turn one, my top speed was so good anyway and I had DRS so I knew it would be quite an easy task to pass him again on the straight."
Maybe Hulk had his car along side Ham's before the DRS activation line, my point was that the measurement of who to give DRS to should have been at a different place. It's been done so in other races.
Maybe I'm misremembering the pass. I couldn't find any videos of it in a fast search and I'm too bored to search more, because you are not nice to talk to.

EDIT: Let's not forget how Hulk took out Hamilton last year at Brazil. If Grosjean had done that you would be calling him names. My point is, do not "canonize" Hulk over one race...

[Hail22]

Did you guys see this, Hamilton's thoughts about the race?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24419864

I will give Hamilton, "the most arrogant driver of the year" award. I like him but he is loosing it.

But he is right though..

I'm a big fan of F1, but this Vettel dominance is too much..
it is killing the sport..

Dominance does not kill sports. Dominance kills shows. Fact.

Come on Ray, he's entitled as an enthusiast to have an opinion...in his opinion its killing the sport, in my opinion circuits aren't liking it as crowd numbers are dwindling.

[raymondu999]

Come on Ray, he's entitled as an enthusiast to have an opinion...in his opinion its killing the sport, in my opinion circuits aren't liking it as crowd numbers are dwindling.

I have no issue with saying people have a bad opinion of Vettel's dominance. But let's use the right words. Is Usain Bolt killing sprint races? No. He's killing the show.

Vettel's dominance isn't killing F1, it's killing F1's popularity.

It's not about me shooting down his opinion - it's about semantics.