Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team 2013

[Kiril Varbanov]

Well, =D> That's a lot better picture. This guys is goner. Problem is that this happened three months ago in Germany ... Still, as Michael Jordan says: I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying.

[marcush.]

Mercedes AMG Petronas have adopted the modus operandi of their mothership more or less .
You need a new car every year and break down the work necessary to achieve it .with the task ahead you will soon realise it does not fit into any of your plans to have the same guys do all the work every year as inevitably you would need to split your focus between current and future car too much so both campaigns will suffer.
As a countermeasure you divide the car design and development into PRE development and Series development .This will allow you to have the guys conceptualising the layout , scrape every info from the regs and prepare the envelope within you will have to work later .
At a certain point you will face a design freeze -every major dicision is taken and set in stone more or less -e.g supplier of the engine is a given - and decision on push or pullrod or new mold techiques are validated and proof of concept has been done and signed of by the directors.
This is when detailing starts and Costas guys do all the bits and pieces .
It´s not Costa does one car and willis or lowe the other .
It´s Willis does the Prototype work ,Costa does make it a workable design and Lowe is moving it into a campaign .Fairly logic -not too revolutionary ,but a steady progress.
In essence we see the 2012 concept car in service this year ....when did willis actually join? end of 2011 ? it does make a fit .

I personally do not think Mercedes AMG Petronas Grand Prix does face any more flak than they deserve.they have improved ,no question -but hey look at the stream of blood and moneys that went down the drain -coming from a double championship team sold as the team to beat in 2009 .I stand to my words -this was the biggest stunt performed for a long time in Formula 1 to sell a core of people as the best idea since sliced bread ,get the money for the sale plus get money for running the whole lot and getting a vote of confidence after admittting it is a heap of crap and we need another 4 TDs and a few hunderd millíons to make a proper team from the mess Daimler has aquired....
=D> =D> =D>
I´m still impressed.

[Hail22]

Curious...why are some of the computers, and all the lights are on in the Mercedes Garage at 1:51am??

Now that leads me to two theories:

1. This guy knows a member of the team extremely well to know where the mains switch was for the garage.

Or

2. Formula 1 teams aren't really applying the "earth friendly" notion of turning things off you're not using.

[GitanesBlondes]

Mercedes AMG Petronas have adopted the modus operandi of their mothership more or less .
You need a new car every year and break down the work necessary to achieve it .with the task ahead you will soon realise it does not fit into any of your plans to have the same guys do all the work every year as inevitably you would need to split your focus between current and future car too much so both campaigns will suffer.
As a countermeasure you divide the car design and development into PRE development and Series development .This will allow you to have the guys conceptualising the layout , scrape every info from the regs and prepare the envelope within you will have to work later .
At a certain point you will face a design freeze -every major dicision is taken and set in stone more or less -e.g supplier of the engine is a given - and decision on push or pullrod or new mold techiques are validated and proof of concept has been done and signed of by the directors.
This is when detailing starts and Costas guys do all the bits and pieces .
It´s not Costa does one car and willis or lowe the other .
It´s Willis does the Prototype work ,Costa does make it a workable design and Lowe is moving it into a campaign .Fairly logic -not too revolutionary ,but a steady progress.
In essence we see the 2012 concept car in service this year ....when did willis actually join? end of 2011 ? it does make a fit .

I personally do not think Mercedes AMG Petronas Grand Prix does face any more flak than they deserve.they have improved ,no question -but hey look at the stream of blood and moneys that went down the drain -coming from a double championship team sold as the team to beat in 2009 .I stand to my words -this was the biggest stunt performed for a long time in Formula 1 to sell a core of people as the best idea since sliced bread ,get the money for the sale plus get money for running the whole lot and getting a vote of confidence after admittting it is a heap of crap and we need another 4 TDs and a few hunderd millíons to make a proper team from the mess Daimler has aquired....
=D> =D> =D>
I´m still impressed.

Let's not forget bringing a guy (Lauda) who helped to sink (while collecting a multi-million dollar payout) the last F1 team he was involved in. Lauda Air ceased operations in July of this year which may not really mean much of anything...other than he has more time on his hands...

[FoxHound]

Hmmm

Marcush,
Did the sale of sauber to bmw, and back to sauber not net peter a tidy profit?
What is their management structure like?
And what of their current plight in having to get russian teenage pay drivers to make ends meet?

I skimmed through the thread (sauber team) and didn't see much from you regards these issues.
Why hold these things against one team but not judge other teams according to your own well versed yardstick?

[Cocles]

Some of the guys and gals over at Reddit have been at work on Nico's security photos. (Various links in the comments...)

http://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/commen ... he_garage/

[FoxHound]

I get that you aren't enamoured with the team, marcush.
But constant rehashing will lead to richard wielding his stick again.
So best we leave the past where it belongs as we will never agree on it.

So lets focus on here and now, and a promising future for mercedes amg petronas, rather than dig up contentious bones that lead to blind alleys and Nissan AMG's.

Whadda ya say?

[marcush.]

Hmmm

Marcush,
Did the sale of sauber to bmw, and back to sauber not net peter a tidy profit?
What is their management structure like?
And what of their current plight in having to get russian teenage pay drivers to make ends meet?

I skimmed through the thread (sauber team) and didn't see much from you regards these issues.
Why hold these things against one team but not judge other teams according to your own well versed yardstick?

wrong thread here -but you sure see the difference?

I cannot see your issues with Peter Sauber to be honest.He bought back the team ,saved it from extinction ,restructured and arranged his own replacement -as far as I know with no financial benefit to himself. Sauber has found investors and
looks at least stable these days .
Bang for buck they are a very efficient outfit methinks in 2012 they were the team Mercedes wanted to be when they announced their engagement as a works outfit- with hindsight Kobayashi and Perez simply do not cut it and considering this
a Rosberg Schumacher or Hamilton combo would have won a considerable amount of races in that year if they had that sauber instead ...

[FoxHound]

So its ok for sauber to sell then (2005) and its ok for him to sell now?

Which venture capital firms are circling now? Qadbak?
What do you think of getting a teenager to pay millions to drive an f1 car.
Shedding staff mid season?

If you have issue with mercedes, then you should be apoplectic with sauber.
Im drawing the comparison because you think mercedes management and its purchase of the team is worth commenting.
Why not sauber, a team you like?

[SectorOne]

I cannot see your issues with Peter Sauber to be honest.He bought back the team ,saved it from extinction ,restructured and arranged his own replacement -as far as I know with no financial benefit to himself.

I think it went more like this,

- So we want to "buy" your team for x amount of years, we´ll push in cash like you would not believe.
- Sure i see no problems with that.

Years later.

- Ok we´ll leave F1 now, here´s the keys Peter, thanks.
- no problem boys, anytime in the future should you feel you want to come back let me know.

It´s a partnership more then it was an outright buy like Red Bull and Jaguar. Peter still had a 20% stake in the team.
It was called BMW Sauber throughout the years as well.

Mercedes has a similar thing going on with Brawn and Fry owning 20 something percent but it was all bought in 2011.

[marcush.]

still offtopic ,
Sauber SAVED the team with his own money ,and he shot in private money this year to keep the team afloat in the summer .
without peter sauber the team would not exist anymore.Sauber would have been a lot better off financially leaving the boat
with BMW and let it sink.
compare with Brawn -who got the whole lot for zilch from honda plus the running cost for 2009 and a complete car as well ...
Yes it could have gone all wrong -but the assets are surely worth something .

When BMW bought Sauber ,the windtunnel was already in place and a major asset ,as was the considerable supercomputer cluster .so I think it is not justified to say BMW did all bankroll this.

Admittedly the original Sauber premises were bankrolled by Mercedes in the early 90s and Sauber did not pay for it ...but who would say no to such a gift.

compare:
http://adamcooperf1.com/2010/09/14/braw ... t-in-2009/

[FoxHound]

So mercedes bank rolled sauber in the early days.
Who would say no to such a gift you say.

Brawn inherits the honda team.
You want him to decline this gift?

Do you see the parallels?

Im not judging Mr Sauber. He stole nothing, and inherited alot from the link with mercedes.

[GitanesBlondes]

So mercedes bank rolled sauber in the early days.
Who would say no to such a gift you say.

Brawn inherits the honda team.
You want him to decline this gift?

Do you see the parallels?

Im not judging Mr Sauber. He stole nothing, and inherited alot from the link with mercedes.

Sauber has essentially been on the grid for 20 years now. He did everything he could to keep the team afloat...Brawn kept it afloat with the bare minimum just to turn around and flip it on Mercedes. Had the car been properly developed in 2009, perhaps MGP might not have wasted 3 seasons on the grid achieving nothing, no? Even with 2013 seeing multiple wins, I'm not entirely convinced about what lies ahead in 2014 and beyond.

Something about saved jobs has been mentioned yet plenty were laid off in the transition from Honda to Brawn. Plus all I see is Brawn doing everything he could to ensure he made as much money as possible from the entire thing. He never had any serious intention of fielding a team beyond 2009.

Kind of sad if you ask me since this team has a direct lineage dating back to Sir Jackie.

[FoxHound]

Did sauber not make mass layoffs in 2009? Exactly the same time as brawn?

What are you suggesting gitanes?
Sauber made layoffs to survive, and brawn made layoffs to make a quick buck?

[xpensive]

...
Sauber made layoffs to survive, and brawn made layoffs to make a quick buck?

I agree Fox, but Brawn already had Haug on the hook and finally caught the big fish, catch-and-release? Don't think so...