Red Bull RB9 Renault

[SectorOne]

I thought it was clear that it was nothing other then friction that caused the temp to rise.
One time they had the camera out of the pits and it built up the heat during the straight like you would expect something dragging along tarmac.

[Huntresa]

I thought it was clear that it was nothing other then friction that caused the temp to rise.
One time they had the camera out of the pits and it built up the heat during the straight like you would expect something dragging along tarmac.

But its not dragging, its much more that its barely touching, cause something doesnt need to touch properly to get hot. But its not rly a trick.

[turbof1]

The issue I am having with the "scraping over the ground" theory is that we see during several different instances: qualifying with very low fuel on board, begin race with a full tank, end race with an almost depleted tank... . Assuming that theory to be true, the ride height has to be very low, so low that you are scraping the floor all race long (even then, the t-tray would get scraped off so much that by the end it normally shouldn't be touching the ground anymore, but that aside). I very much doubt you'll have a legal floor by the end of the race under those conditions.

The counter argument to pretty much anything else beside the scraping theory is that we don't see it during for instance in the pits. The thing is, running at 80 km/h constant, how much do you need a "curling t-tray"? Or how much do they need to dump energy in possible resistors in the t-tray? In the pits there is no need for all of that.

[Huntresa]

The issue I am having with the "scraping over the ground" theory is that we see during several different instances: qualifying with very low fuel on board, begin race with a full tank, end race with an almost depleted tank... . Assuming that theory to be true, the ride height has to be very low, so low that you are scraping the floor all race long (even then, the t-tray would get scraped off so much that by the end it normally shouldn't be touching the ground anymore, but that aside). I very much doubt you'll have a legal floor by the end of the race under those conditions.

The counter argument to pretty much anything else beside the scraping theory is that we don't see it during for instance in the pits. The thing is, running at 80 km/h constant, how much do you need a "curling t-tray"? Or how much do they need to dump energy in possible resistors in the t-tray? In the pits there is no need for all of that.

Its quite evident they are doing something no other team can do, especially if look at the pics of the car after Vettel did his donuts in India, how much rake that the car is actually running, its quite incredible seeing as they need to seal the diffusert incredibly well but in some magic way no one else seems to know about.

[SectorOne]

I thought it was clear that it was nothing other then friction that caused the temp to rise.
One time they had the camera out of the pits and it built up the heat during the straight like you would expect something dragging along tarmac.

But its not dragging, its much more that its barely touching, cause something doesnt need to touch properly to get hot. But its not rly a trick.

Looks like it´s dragging on the ground quite frequently to me.

Edit: now that i think about it, you can actually hear the car hitting the ground sometimes from the onboard.

[Owen.C93]

They run metal skid blocks for a small amount of the splitter anyway. These are what create the sparks and when a car bottoms out that you see the yellow/brown dust come out the rear which is the real plank. I guess the metal parts heat up and expand giving that 0.5mm of clearance above the plank to allow the splitter to hit the floor and spark up without really troubling the plank.

I mean if they were using heat to their advantage it would either be that expansion or weakening of the floor stay IMO.

[lio007]

here is an article from AMuS about "RB's secret": it's about interlinked suspension with roll-control
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 76407.html

[AnthonyG]

here is an article from AMuS about "RB's secret": it's about interlinked suspension with roll-control
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 76407.html

That still doesn't explain how they can run such high rake. (the thing that distinguishes the RB from other teams)

[Manoah2u]

redbull rake - it's quite clear, isn't it?





about that rake, here's some information that's worth the read:

http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/rake_angle.html



if you think of it, the front wing 'flexing' actually makes lots of sense with the rake. since higher
velocity seems to 'level out' the RB9's rake just slightly, the front wing in result will 'sit' a little higher
aswell - which is a slightly unwanted side effect. by 'flexing' the wing back into the ground, that problem
is resolved. In the 'beginning', it was just the sides of the wing flexing down, but with development, the
entire wing itself flexes minutely lower. It was clearly visible from onboard shots that the wings were
'dropping down' when they hit higher velocity.

other teams trying to copy that flexing did gain a tiny amount of advantage, but as brawn said and newey
himself said in interviews "copying never works as the original does". the entire RB9 is built according to a
plan, and it's been like that atleast since the RB6, but definately since the RB7.
Obviously, the 'flexing' of the front wing on the redbull has greater effect due to being part of a 'high rake car',
so the same 'flexing' on the ferrari f.e. will have less result because the ferrari simply isn't running such a high rake.

Redbull might indeed also run some nifty suspension work, but to be honest, i think it's not really as neccesary since the
aero of the redbull itself generates enough benefit.

this article suggest a 'esp' - like kers trick, which sounds quite legit actually, and would also explain the amazing traction
the RedBull showed especcialy in singapore.

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/does-t ... 1442047152

it would most definately explain the 'sensitivity' of RedBull's kers system and why they get a lot of trouble with that.
If they are the only ones running the system like that, it's logical the other teams aren't having the same issues.

If any, it seems Redbull has put every little research and did everything they could to bring and maximize all the
possibilities to bring as much traction they could. Kinda reminds me of Senna just dancing around everybody by
dropping the car as low as possible - not delving into senna's extraordinary driving skills - and getting the benefits of
that. It's like RedBull simply dropped the car a few inches closer to the ground compared to the competition - only they
tricked their way into that quite nifty.

And yes, i've noticed a long time that i can clearly hear bottom scraping on onboard shots, on the redbull much louder then other cars. Hell, even my wife asked; "is something broken? i hear something scraping the road all the time, surely that can't be good?" - obviously, i've been wondering about that, too. But apparantly, that must be the tea-tray hitting the tarmac. If you pay close attention, you can even notice that 'scraping sound' is louder when at mid-speed, and under braking and getting through a corner.

[Huntresa]

From todays thermal images we could atleast read out what degrees the colors represent since they showed the asphalt or ground as blue, which is then 45-50degrees today. Also the tea tray wasnt getting hot today, or not more then the blue 50degrees.

[Manoah2u]

From todays thermal images we could atleast read out what degrees the colors represent since they showed the asphalt or ground as blue, which is then 45-50degrees today. Also the tea tray wasnt getting hot today, or not more then the blue 50degrees.

hmmm that's interesting indeed. so the thermal imaging shows from a relatively low temperature already.......so it must be set somewhere between 40 degrees to let's say 100 degrees centigrade......so what is abu dhabi going to reveal more?

[atanatizante]

Could anyone explain me how on earth could be gained 1,5-2 sec. per lap after just one month (summer break) and everybody else gained this time in a space of 6 or 9 months? ...

[Manoah2u]

then first, YOU'll have to explain how you think they've gained 1,5 to 2,0 seconds a lap since the summer break?
I didn't see a 1,5 to 2,0 second gain to be honesT?

because f.e.:

SPA QUALIFYING:

1. HAMILTON > 2:01.012
2. VETTEL > 2:01.200 = 0.188 sec LOSS

RACE

1. VETTEL > 2. ALONSO + 16.9 SECS = OVER 44 LAPS 0,38 seconds gain a lap versus Alonso.

MONZA QUALY

1. VETTEL > 1:23.755
3. HULK > 1:24.065 = + 0.310 VS SAUBER [WEBBER WAS 2ND]

RACE

1. VETTEL > 2. ALONSO + 5.4 SECS = OVER 53 LAPS 0,10 seconds gain a lap versus Alonso.

SINGAPORE QUALY

1. VETTEL > 1:42.841
2. ROSBERG > 1:42.932 = + 0.091 SECS

RACE

1. VETTEL > 2. ALONSO + 32.6 SECS = OVER 61 LAPS 0,54 seconds gain a lap versus Alonso.

ETC. ETC.

nowhere is there a 1,5 - 2,0 second gain. perhaps a momentarily lap or 2 might bring a big gain, but that can be due to various causes.

[Huntresa]

Could anyone explain me how on earth could be gained 1,5-2 sec. per lap after just one month (summer break) and everybody else gained this time in a space of 6 or 9 months? ...

Newey has alrdy said in several interviews that the change to the old tyre structure was one of the major things that helped them. Both im terms of Being able to handel the Aero loads and that they grow more in size then the other structure which also helps rbs way of setting up the car.

[astracrazy]

Red Bull were always holding back on DF on the 'pre break' tyres. since they went back to the old tyres, they were able to use the max df

i'd imagine that if these tyres were used from the start, this would of been there most dominant season yet....