Schumacher ski accident, coma and recovery

[henra]

Fun fact: if you drop something from head height (1.6m) it will be travelling at over 100km/h before it hits the ground. That means merely tripping over at walking pace and hitting a rock will give you a high speed impact to the head.

Nope:
v=g*SQRT(2*s/g)
=> v= 9,81*SQRT(3,2/9,81)
=> v=5,6 m/s
=> v=20,17 km/h

tim|away has already done the math.

A helmet will give an additional crumple zone /deceleration length of ~3cm.
Resulting deceleration:
a= v^2/2*s
=> a=53,3g.

Internal bleeding is generally assumed to be expected wih Head accelerations of >80-100g (may be lower depending on direction of acceleration, especially lateral).

The rough calculation indicates that a little bit more effective speed might potentially have been present in this accident.
But it doesn't necessarily take much more since speed enters squared.

[aleks_ader]

Dent de Burgin mountain area where Michael Schumacher fell while skiing





Source grandprix247.com, BBB News By Alexandra Williams and Rebecca Evans and Simon Tomlinson and Allan Hall

Its just a shame and really unfortunately chain events =hidend rock, distraction factor, catapullt fall, angle of fall, helmed design, speed etc = whatever you could imagine go wrong.

Bv. that unmarked rocks just call for accident, but anyway it is his responsibility after all. At last it is his decision to go ski on unprotected and relatively unsafe ski area. Like P widsdor sad he is "adrenalin addicted" person, who always live on edge of capabilities and try things to the maximum.

We should respect his live and i m sure that he will never regret that decision. [-o<


Trans; "do not leave us"

[mep]

This picture illustrates how freaky that accident is.
In principle it is not a dangerous place at all, yet what was going on in Schumachers head to leave the piste exactly there?
It is full of visible rocks and the slope is very flat so you hardly get the required speed in the deep snow. Maybe he just wanted to check the snow quality next to the official piste. It’s one of these stupid decisions where you don’t really know why you did them. Again the danger of the mountains is often underestimated.
It is such a tragedy to lose a so big hero at such a stupid spot.

[munudeges]

And how the accident happened is relevant because ?

Because those who can't stand him have a reason to say it was purely his own fault. Makes them feel better I guess.

That makes sense but is a very inhumane thing to do...

Because we all know that it's irresponsible to take a fourteen year old child off-piste and his team have a vested interest in managing the media. It's what they've always done. The fact that we want him to get better is beside the point here.

But, let's not let logic and the facts of the accident as we know them get in the way here. It's easier to defend Schumacher by throwing around the party line that he's hated. Not like we haven't seen that one before.

[langwadt]

This picture illustrates how freaky that accident is.
In principle it is not a dangerous place at all, yet what was going on in Schumachers head to leave the piste exactly there?
It is full of visible rocks and the slope is very flat so you hardly get the required speed in the deep snow. Maybe he just wanted to check the snow quality next to the official piste. It’s one of these stupid decisions where you don’t really know why you did them. Again the danger of the mountains is often underestimated.
It is such a tragedy to lose a so big hero at such a stupid spot.

I read some where that according to his manager he had just been helping a friends daughter who had fallen, so he might have been skiing on the normal pistes but just made the stupid decision to take a short cut down after helping someone

[munudeges]

People who think you can only get seriously injured if you are going fast really ^%$&$% me off.

I didn't say that at all, but given the nature of his injuries, the complete destruction of his helmet and on top of that he's had a pretty big haematoma, bilateral contusions and is deeply sedated then you shouldn't really need to be a genius to put two and two together here.

You compare this to any serious skiing accident resulting in a brain injury, even by those who ski in competition and those who compete in on a pipe, and you don't have to be much of a genius to work out that there was a lot of energy in this accident. He did not get this by travelling at slow speed and magically catapulting over a rock.

[munudeges]

That would depend on the facilities at the other hospital. Granted I would have thought a med-evac helicopter would carry a doctor skilled in carrying and rapid-sequence-induction (RSI) in the field, but maybe their standards are different from the UK...and actually not all helimeds in the UK carry them as standard all the time.

No their standards are not different from the UK, especially the Swiss teams, and they should be well used to it. When you are airlifting a trauma victim who has had that kind of impact it is standard practice to sedate and intubate them before they fly no matter how 'normal' they might look. The reason why is because if they 'go off' during the flight you have no space in which to work and you have to assume they will.

What has emerged over the past few days is that when Schumacher was airlifted to hospital he 'went off' (collapsed) during the flight and the helicopter had to land so they could take measures. This was not good and I really hope it hasn't affected his chances of survival. Beyond that the medical staff at Grenoble really seem to have pulled out all the stops.

[Pup]

People who think you can only get seriously injured if you are going fast really ^%$&$% me off.

You compare this to any serious skiing accident resulting in a brain injury, even by those who ski in competition and those who compete in on a pipe, and you don't have to be much of a genius to work out that there was a lot of energy in this accident. He did not get this by travelling at slow speed and magically catapulting over a rock.

The study below was quite clear: 18.6mph + rock = likely fatal accident. I imagine any 'likely fatal' accident would leave any EPS foam helmet looking like it had been run over by a semi. The protection they offer comes via their destruction after all.

It may not be intuitive, but there it is. You can have a rather serious accident even at a seemingly slow speed. This should be a warning to skiers and cyclists alike. I know it hits home for me, and I'm probably going shopping for a better helmet this weekend, assuming there's one to be found.

[Hail22]

My last post on this thread I'm sure this artist sums up what the whole of the F1 Technical community wishes to Michael Schumacher and his Family:

[Manoah2u]

glad schumacher is stable at this point.

amazing how easily one can get hurt outside of f1 in 'daily' life doing stuff everybody does [or could do].
so many accidents happen in F1 yet people seem to get traumatized [physically] more outside of F1, with the
exception of Massa with his helmet accident.

If you lose control, things can get very ugly, and unfortunately, that's easier to reach in skiing/boarding then
in other sports. I'm glad no F1 driver engages in freerunning or wingsuit diving.

[munudeges]

The study below was quite clear: 18.6mph + rock = likely fatal accident. I imagine any 'likely fatal' accident would leave any EPS foam helmet looking like it had been run over by a semi. The protection they offer comes via their destruction after all.

What study?

Anyway, no. I'm afraid pulling out figures and then saying 'likely fatal accident' doesn't mean anything. You look at the destruction of Schumacher's helmet and the pretty grave injuries he has on top of that then there is no getting around it, there was a lot of energy in this accident and he wasn't travelling at 20 odd miles per hour. The way this story has changed since the initial 'he was with his son and no one else was involved' should tell you that, but it's clear no one wants to accept that.

This is more serious than a lot of injuries that even many competition skiers have endured when you compare them.

I know it hits home for me, and I'm probably going shopping for a better helmet this weekend, assuming there's one to be found.

I hope you don't think a helmet is supposed to disintegrate when you get one then. A helmet only disintegrates when it has absorbed all the energy that it can, and then it's up to your head. It is certainly not designed to do that. The energy that Schumacher's head has had to absorb beyond that is really quite substantial.

[henra]

This is more serious than a lot of injuries that even many competition skiers have endured when you compare them.
ot designed to do that. The energy that Schumacher's head has had to absorb beyond that is really quite substantial.

You cannot necessarily compare that.
1. In competition skiing no (potentially pointy) rocks are usually involved in accidents,
2. Horizontal speed only makes things worse if you hit objects in horizontal direction.
The vertical speed vector with regard to the object hit is the relevant one. Orthoginal components don't have much significance other than increasing the chance to hit another object while continuing on the trajectory.

[aleks_ader]

Orthoginal components don't have much significance other than increasing the chance to hit another object while continuing on the trajectory.

Or increase chance to more even absorbs hits (no drastic G spikes) if it lead into rolling down hill like in som FIS downhill crashes.

So yeah more is your speed and acceleration vector verticaly lees are chances to make longer absorbstion time. Unless is very steep slope (like in some extrem free style ski acients, when they miracules survive) or you use huge deflating airbag.

[Pup]

The study below was quite clear: 18.6mph + rock = likely fatal accident. I imagine any 'likely fatal' accident would leave any EPS foam helmet looking like it had been run over by a semi. The protection they offer comes via their destruction after all.

What study?

Anyway, no. I'm afraid pulling out figures and then saying 'likely fatal accident' doesn't mean anything. You look at the destruction of Schumacher's helmet and the pretty grave injuries he has on top of that then there is no getting around it, there was a lot of energy in this accident and he wasn't travelling at 20 odd miles per hour. The way this story has changed since the initial 'he was with his son and no one else was involved' should tell you that, but it's clear no one wants to accept that.

This is more serious than a lot of injuries that even many competition skiers have endured when you compare them.

I know it hits home for me, and I'm probably going shopping for a better helmet this weekend, assuming there's one to be found.

I hope you don't think a helmet is supposed to disintegrate when you get one then. A helmet only disintegrates when it has absorbed all the energy that it can, and then it's up to your head. It is certainly not designed to do that. The energy that Schumacher's head has had to absorb beyond that is really quite substantial.

You're dismissing an argument while at the same time admitting that you didn't read it. The only thing this post adds to the conversation is proof that a) you are fully ignorant of the subject matter, and b) you aren't at all interested in changing that.

[strad]

know it hits home for me, and I'm probably going shopping for a better helmet this weekend, assuming there's one to be found.

Paleeeeezzzzzz....ya gotta be kidding.