JPM's NASCAR Revue

Please discuss here all your remarks and pose your questions about all racing series, except Formula One. Both technical and other questions about GP2, Touring cars, IRL, LMS, ...
Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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Ciro Pabón wrote:I can imagine how Igniis must be when enraged. :D
Wait, I am well composed, nice, intelligent... most of the time. For the rest - I learned that I shouldn't throw things that can break long ago. :oops: :lol: :lol:

Milda should probably get Image
:wink: :D

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jgredline
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Joined: 16 Jan 2006, 07:07
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Common guys, lets get back on topic...This thread is on JPM
To finish first, first you must finish.

Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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jgredline wrote:Common guys, lets get back on topic...This thread is on JPM
All right, back to JPM. :)
... How soon before Juan Montoya wins a NASCAR oval race -- either Busch Series or Nextel Cup?

Dave Rodman: Obviously, there is no way it's going to be as seemingly easy as the one in Mexico was. But the guy proved how much sheer talent he has -- though his stock car racing judgment just as obviously needs work.

David Caraviello: Mexico seemed like the right place at the right time. You just had this feeling he was going to break through there. As for ovals, I still think his best chance might be on a plate track, where he's been able to hold his own a little.

Joe Menzer: None of 'em are easy. But I have a sneaking suspicion that he's going to win his first at an oval sooner rather than later. Maybe he'll bump somebody out of the way at one of the short tracks -- although I think he'll struggle at first, at Bristol.

David Caraviello:
I think he'll get overwhelmed at Bristol. He's never seen anything like that.

Dave Rodman: On ovals, the margin for error is virtually nil, and the capacity for making enemies is limitless. He did not make a friend of Scottie Sunday.

Joe Menzer: And that's one of his teammates! The whole problem with that, of course, is that he had the best car and would have won anyway. He could have done it cleanly if he had just been a little more patient.

Dave Rodman: Precisely.

David Caraviello: Uh, Dave, he won't have to worry about seeing Scott Pruett at the front in an oval race.

Dave Rodman: Exactly. That, of course, was in the back of my mind. Juan reportedly takes no prisoners and in this case, it's too bad one ill-advised move wiped out a lot of good memories of a fantastic day.

Joe Menzer: He won't have to worry about seeing Pruett at the front on an oval -- but he will have to worry about seeing him back at the Ganassi shop!

Dave Rodman: They issued statements and I'd say the hatchet is officially buried. It's another one of those "heat of the moment" deals.

David Caraviello: Am I the only one who thought Pruett caused the wreck? To me, Montoya clearly had the inside position, and Pruett came in on him.

Joe Menzer: Even Montoya doesn't think Pruett caused the wreck!

Dave Rodman: If Montoya were beyond his rear wheel David, that argument would have more merit. But Montoya speared him in the back corner of the right rear quarter panel -- and barely damaged it.

David Caraviello: But seriously, watch the replay -- readily available on NASCAR.com -- again. Montoya has the inside position. His nose is inside Pruett's back bumper. Scott pinches him into the corner.

Joe Menzer: He just needed to exercise more patience, and couldn't. That's why he'll have troubles at Bristol, at least until he learns that.

Dave Rodman: As Denny Hamlin said, clearly "overzealous." He was caught up in the moment -- and you could argue he should have been. I don't think I've seen anyone drive by a competitive car in the middle of Turns 7 and 8 on the inside in three years.

Joe Menzer: You know what, though? They hired him to win races and he has done it in other leagues precisely because of his aggressive, take-no-prisoners style. You can't easily tell or teach a guy to hold back on that.

Dave Rodman: Good point, Joe.

Joe Menzer: It's such a part of what makes him so good.

David Caraviello: Sorry, but the way I've always seen it is, you get inside the guy at the corner, the position is yours. I'm still wondering what the fuss was.

Dave Rodman: I hated to see Brad Parrott so torn up. That kid puts his heart and soul into his deal -- and that was the most heart-rending, honest assessment of pain I've seen from a victor -- maybe ever. It looked like he and Pruett's guys were almost gonna come to blows before the broadcast ended -- and they DO have to race together -- every week!

Joe Menzer: If they hadn't been teammates, there probably wouldn't have been that much of a fuss over it. There might have been some squawking, sure -- but not as much as there has been.

Dave Rodman: Probably would have been a fistfight.

Joe Menzer: It all makes for great NASCAR theater, though.

David Caraviello: Everybody makes it seem like he deliberately punted the guy. "Lowdown, dirty driving," or whatever Pruett called it, it was not. And of course, more fodder for the conspiracy theorists.

Dave Rodman: David, we could spend the rest of Smack arguing that point -- five percent past someone does not constitute a pass, to me. Harpoon job, maybe.

Joe Menzer: Are you two going to fistfight?

David Caraviello: Inside position is inside position. You have it or you don't.

Dave Rodman: And he didn't.

Joe Menzer: Break it up, you two!

Dave Rodman: Nor is giving up five percent a reason to give up the corner. If you look at when Montoya passed Biffle in the same place a few laps earlier, he was inside him sooner, and further. Biff wisely gave it up.

Joe Menzer: I'm sensing this is going to be Gerald Henderson-Tyler Hansbrough all over again!

Dave Rodman: If Pruett came down on him with his door or wheel -- point made. It was his bumper, for God's sake.

Joe Menzer: I think you two need to go to decaf!

David Caraviello: I don't care how much it was. He got there first. What is this, baseball with all these ridiculous unwritten rules?

Dave Rodman: This is NASCAR. He got to Victory Lane -- end of story. ...


http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/feature ... ger/1.html
“It’s frustrating, but we had the pace. It wasn’t bad luck. It was a reflection of our intensity of development.” - Ron Dennis

Ignis Fatuus
Ignis Fatuus
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Ciro Pabón wrote: Anyway, ať žije Tomáš Enge a MENX! We used to get the GT championship here... Not anymore. :cry:
We don't have it too. It's a shame, but Enge was never popular enough here.
:roll: :(

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Ted68
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Joined: 20 Mar 2006, 05:19
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By my count, JPM is only 19 points out of the chase and ahead of some of NASCAR's stars and two former champs...not bad at all.


1 Mark Martin 629 --- $1,522,907 0 0 3 4
2 Jeff Gordon 621 8 $939,519 0 1 2 3
3 Jeff Burton 618 11 $1,174,373 0 0 3 3
4 Jimmie Johnson 601 28 $981,583 2 0 3 3
5 Matt Kenseth 567 62 $860,356 1 0 3 3
6 Tony Stewart 507 122 $856,528 0 0 1 3
7 Kevin Harvick 482 147 $1,831,541 1 0 1 1
8 Denny Hamlin 480 149 $645,200 0 0 1 1
9 Clint Bowyer 479 150 $483,225 0 0 0 2
10 Carl Edwards 471 158 $494,208 0 0 0 2
11 David Stremme 463 166 $481,533 0 0 0 0
12 J.J. Yeley 462 167 $556,682 0 0 0 0
13 Elliott Sadler 456 173 $675,993 0 0 0 1
14 Kyle Busch 449 180 $550,633 0 0 0 2
15 Juan Pablo Montoya 443 186 $546,908 0 0 1 1
16 Robby Gordon 433 196 $455,550 0 0 0 0
17 Bobby Labonte 428 201 $560,333 0 0 0 0
18 Ryan Newman 422 207 $587,633 0 1 0 1
19 Joe Nemechek 420 209 $471,883 0 0 0 1
20 Kurt Busch 416 213 $626,607 0 0 0 1
21 David Gilliland 408 221 $723,267 0 1 0 1
22 Martin Truex Jr. 392 237 $524,145 0 0 0 1
23 David Ragan 386 243 $774,875 0 0 1 1
24 Jamie McMurray 374 255 $470,433 0 0 0 1
25 Reed Sorenson 371 258 $484,329 0 0 0 1
26 Greg Biffle 366 263 $537,050 0 0 0 0
26 Dale Earnhardt Jr. 366 263 $624,399 0 0 0 0
28 Johnny Sauter 346 283 $429,350 0 0 0 0
29 Sterling Marlin 327 302 $459,935 0 0 0 0
30 Ricky Rudd 325 304 $521,932 0 0 0 0
31 Tony Raines 313 316 $466,758 0 0 0 0
32 Casey Mears 295 334 $453,475 0 0 0 0
33 Dale Jarrett 283 346 $457,475 0 0 0 0
34 Kyle Petty 279 350 $451,666 0 0 0 0
35 Jeff Green 274 355 $477,941 0 0 0 0
36 Kasey Kahne 259 370 $701,806 0 1 0 1
37 Paul Menard 240 389 $168,525 0 0 0 0
38 Dave Blaney 231 398 $443,257 0 0 0 0
*** Chase for the Nextel Cup Cutoff ***
39 Scott Riggs 195 434 $489,783 0 0 0 0
40 Brian Vickers 176 453 $141,400 0 0 0 1
41 Ken Schrader 165 464 $413,178 0 0 0 0
42 Mike Wallace 160 469 $615,658 0 0 1 1
43 David Reutimann 150 479 $342,541 0 0 0 0
44 Boris Said 121 508 $307,375 0 0 0 0
45 Mike Bliss 100 529 $0 0 0 0 0
46 Kenny Wallace 91 538 $85,550 0 0 0 0
47 Jon Wood 76 553 $104,064 0 0 0 0
48 John Andretti 61 568 $80,150 0 0 0 0
49 Aric Almirola 40 589 $78,775 0 0 0 0
50 Ward Burton 34 595 $79,452 0 0 0 0
51 Michael Waltrip -27 656 $269,708 0 0 0 0

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jgredline
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Joined: 16 Jan 2006, 07:07
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JPM is surprising allot of people...
To finish first, first you must finish.

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jgredline
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To finish first, first you must finish.

DaveKillens
DaveKillens
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Joined: 20 Jan 2005, 04:02

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As someone who is a dedicated fan of JPM, I'm very pleased at his efforts so far. He's shown great patience and determination in learning this totally new culture and form of racing.
At Mexico, he was without any doubt, the class of the field and really did put on a clinic on road racing. Even the imported road race specialists like Pruett, Ron fellows, and Boris Said could only follow in humble trail to a great performance by Montoya. Yea, it was a rough pass, but heck, I just watched a much more brutal encounter at the last lap of Sebrong in the GP2 cars, where a Ferrari played very rough with a faster Porsche. And Pruett, what did you expect from a much quicker car on your tail? Especially in NASCAR where bumping and banging is practically encouraged?
I've been exposed to NASCAR racing and it's fans to have a pretty good idea of it's culture. Notwithstanding that many I know are very nice, upstanding people, the great majority of NASCAR fans are typical rednecks, with all the trappings of racism, bigotry, ignorance, a pickup truck, rifle rack, an engine block for a coffee table, and where you share your bed with a dog or three.
Ciro, it pains me to see you blow a gasket, because you know all these things, I need to email you a few cyber valium. :wink:
Anyways, at the Atlanta race JPM ran a more than respectable pace, and was right up there with the best. Watch out redneckland, he's going to win one soon.

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jgredline
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DaveKillens wrote:As someone who is a dedicated fan of JPM, I'm very pleased at his efforts so far. He's shown great patience and determination in learning this totally new culture and form of racing.
At Mexico, he was without any doubt, the class of the field and really did put on a clinic on road racing. Even the imported road race specialists like Pruett, Ron fellows, and Boris Said could only follow in humble trail to a great performance by Montoya. Yea, it was a rough pass, but heck, I just watched a much more brutal encounter at the last lap of Sebrong in the GP2 cars, where a Ferrari played very rough with a faster Porsche. And Pruett, what did you expect from a much quicker car on your tail? Especially in NASCAR where bumping and banging is practically encouraged?
I've been exposed to NASCAR racing and it's fans to have a pretty good idea of it's culture. Notwithstanding that many I know are very nice, upstanding people, the great majority of NASCAR fans are typical rednecks, with all the trappings of racism, bigotry, ignorance, a pickup truck, rifle rack, an engine block for a coffee table, and where you share your bed with a dog or three.
Ciro, it pains me to see you blow a gasket, because you know all these things, I need to email you a few cyber valium. :wink:
Anyways, at the Atlanta race JPM ran a more than respectable pace, and was right up there with the best. Watch out redneckland, he's going to win one soon.
Amen
To finish first, first you must finish.

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Ciro Pabón
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Well, Dave, I did not realize you were a Juan fan. Do not worry, my man. For starters, I have no gaskets and I have few neurons left to blow after my wild youth. ;) Secondly, I don't care too much about opinions.

It's just that any kind of racism deserves "just indignation", even (ehem... ) people that treats "southern northamericans" as rednecks. You have seen me defending the "redneck pride": I bet no german driver will find easy to defeat a guy like Richard Petty. He could be an "honorary latin". Like I try to do, as Miguel Hernandez, the great spanish poet, said, Mr. Petty, "like the bull, get stronger under punishment" and that's a redneck characteristic I humbly and undeservedly try to make one of mines. "A gentleman is only interested in lost causes", so it's wiser not to allow sadness to overcome you in defeat.

Threatening a colombian is of no use at all: they are used to bullies and they have way too good opinion of themselves to be annoyed by threats, they find them mildly amusing. Anyway, I think I have fun at NASCAR forums, even if half the time half the people don't get half the jokes (that's like one in eight, if you do the math!).

Let me assure I don't have to defend Monty: he attacks enough. He is finding a peculiar style, like the Atlanta race proved. Jeff Gordon, as magnificent as he is, must have felt something weird running alongside Juan for laps and laps, while Mr. Montoya kept the outside racing line, inches from the wall. My wife, no NASCAR fan, watched over 100 laps and that's, for me, quite a compliment to Juan valor. Thanks for the link: it's priceless to read that "As the race went on in Homestead I got more comfortable running the top". My God.

Of course (I was thinking this was going to happen sooner or later, I've seen this happening to rookies more than once), Mr. Burton lead Monty into brushing the wall very smartly. You probably know how it is: you left a small opening and the "outer car", having more speed on the greater radius curve line, thinks he can overtake a little on the entrance to the straight, then you close the window a little and wham! Those rednecks are smarter than they seem, and this is one of their most amazing qualities (what we call here something like the "indian smartness"). More amazing perhaps that Juan not even mentioning it.

Fifth is good anyway, not as much for the finish line position, but for the racing position. It's been ages (since Gordon entered NASCAR and proved his genius) that I see a guy that is 1 mile per hour faster than the leaders for laps and laps. This is like being 1 second faster than the leaders at F1.

I found that more amazing than the "soup and dessert" meal Juan gave to the Busch field at Rodriguez's Brothers track, where (gods, pardon me, it was just for a moment :oops:) I laughed hard at Mr. Pruett rant and I could not avoid the comparison with Sylvester the Cat and Speedy Gonzales, even if I admire Mr. Pruett as much as the seven times Daytona 24 hours winner he is. It reminded me of Mr. Schumacher at Brazil 2001, because, like Mr. Pruett, these were guys used to do the same and it's hard on your pride to get "a dose of your own medicine".

I'm having busy weekends, trying to watch Alonso AND Monty. Besides, now that I have Speed Channel to follow NASCAR full time, I've discovered Super V8, a kind of races my wife declared were, finally, "what she was looking for, better even than karting". This is going to be an entertaining year.

As long as Juan is safe and having fun, I will have fun myself and I really don't care if he finishes 1st or 44th. Besides, I humbly believe americans are more touchy and easier to put off balance than europeans, specially germans and british, tough people if there is one in this world. The "Rookie of the year" award is slowly falling into place.
Ciro

DaveKillens
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Oh yea, especially when JPM went to F1, he was a breath of fresh air with his attitude and willingness to race anyone and unafraid or intimidated by no one.
But we need not worry, he definitely has the talent, intelligence, and ... umm.. how do you say it in Spanish? On yea ... cojones.