2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[ringo]

I agree with you Holms.

I don't think you can hear any wastegate opeation, nor any blow-off valves, in the videos taken at Jerez.

I'm hearing BOV on the torro rosso and ferrari. Put on your ear trumpet then listen again.



It's main heard during deceleration. The upshifts seem to fast for it to open.

[Holm86]

I agree with you Holms.

I don't think you can hear any wastegate opeation, nor any blow-off valves, in the videos taken at Jerez.

What do you think is the sound you hear at 0:27 ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQbdEJsjHQ

To me that just sounds like compressor surge.

[Tommy Cookers]

I can't believe that max power is at higher than 10500 min-1. Lower rews less friction, most time to inject and burn fuel. Unless they deliberately map the engine in a way that it doesn't use all of available fuel... But why should they do this? Driveability?

That is not the case with formula 1 engines. The friction to engine speed relationship is not linear. Friction can increase with speed then decrease as speed continues to increase.

don't agree
the losses in the N/A engine (that represent the difference between imep and bmep) are friction + 'pumping losses'
the 2014 F1 equivalents of these pumping losses are continually accounted (eg in the compressor, turbine, and crankshaft powers)
there seems no basis in the published data that I have found that the true friction varies with engine speed as much as you suggest
(yes, the pumping losses could do, and they are particularly difficult to capture by measurement)

also this true friction power is rather small in 2014 F1, hardly bigger than the compressor power needed at 10500 rpm
because of this, the compressor power should fall more (from 10500 to 11500 rpm) than the friction power would rise
the air massflow is proportionate to (ambient pressure+compressor-added) pressure (A)
the compressor power is proportionate to compressor-added pressure (B)
A will be made to fall proportionately to an rpm increase, so B will fall disproportionately
and so liberate more power at the turbine

[Abarth]

[.....]so there is more power available to the turbine at 11500 rpm
and it's sent to the crankshaft by Gu-h & Mu-k compounding route, so there is more combined power at 11500 than at 10500 [...]

Thank you for this.

Can fully agree, i made the mistake not to consider the total compounded power...

[Cold Fussion]

[.....]so there is more power available to the turbine at 11500 rpm
and it's sent to the crankshaft by Gu-h & Mu-k compounding route, so there is more combined power at 11500 than at 10500 [...]

Thank you for this.

Can fully agree, i made the mistake not to consider the total compounded power...

This I could understand, but the graphs also show the ICE power alone rising above 10500 rpm. I assumed the ICE only graph was as if we were considered the mgu-h to not be connect to the turbo at all, not as if the mgu-h was running but only showing the ICE contribution, but perhaps this was not the correct interpretation of the graphs.

[pgfpro]

I agree with you Holms.

I don't think you can hear any wastegate opeation, nor any blow-off valves, in the videos taken at Jerez.

What do you think is the sound you hear at 0:27 ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqQbdEJsjHQ

To me that just sounds like compressor surge.

I agree that sounds like compressor surge.

I'm not hearing any waste-gate sound at all? It's very hard to hear when the waste-gate is not dumped to atmosphere. Also a waste-gate will be louder when the boost is lower because more volume of exhaust is going through the gate.

Example:
On my current car the waste-gate that is dumped to atmosphere is so loud it will shock me when my boost is set at only
10 psi.(my pump gas tune lowest boost setting)

But when I have the boost set at 40 psi. I can't hear any waste-gate sound at all, even with a open to atm waste-gate. Because only around 29% of total exhaust is going through the gate at 40 psi, verse 40% of total exhaust is going through the gate at 10 psi.

[Harv]

The interview with the Renault chap implied that none of the engines will make regular use of a wastegate because the MGU-H is there, it's included as a backup in case the MGU-H fails to stop the turbo over-spinning (don't forget there's a 125kRPM limit on the turbo). I can't hear it in any of the footage I've seen so far, just compressor surge.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Andy Cowell from Mercedes speaks about the new engines in an extensive #TechF1 interview:
http://www.mercedesf1.com/en/news/2014/ ... l-q-and-a/

[zjeeraar]

I am no expert on this material, but is it possible that with the new engines, the Doppler-effect is increased?
When you hear a car coming towards you, you can really hear high pitched sounds, almost like the V12 sound of a long time ago.. But when the car is passing the pitch of the sound lowers dramatically..

Below are some videos that show this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf5hN6Rer6Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHb9uc6Y_dY

[langwadt]

I am no expert on this material, but is it possible that with the new engines, the Doppler-effect is increased?
When you hear a car coming towards you, you can really hear high pitched sounds, almost like the V12 sound of a long time ago.. But when the car is passing the pitch of the sound lowers dramatically..

Below are some videos that show this..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vf5hN6Rer6Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHb9uc6Y_dY

Doppler effect is relative to the speed of sound so at the straight maybe 25%, that's not going to make a V6 sound like a V12

[timbo]

I am no expert on this material, but is it possible that with the new engines, the Doppler-effect is increased?

The effect itself depends only on the speed of the car and the speed of sound. However, the cars themself may emit different frequencies directionally, so there might be some illusions.

[.poz]

The interview with the Renault chap implied that none of the engines will make regular use of a wastegate because the MGU-H is there, it's included as a backup in case the MGU-H fails to stop the turbo over-spinning (don't forget there's a 125kRPM limit on the turbo). I can't hear it in any of the footage I've seen so far, just compressor surge.

Exactly, if you limit the compressor speed with the MGU-H then using the wastegate implies that you are wasting energy


What we can hear is the pop-off valve.

Do you thing they will use a CBV or a BOV ? (the last one connected with exhaust) Or both with some electronic switching form CBV to BOV ??

[Ferrari2183]

Got this from the Autosport forums...

http://www.omnicorse.it/magazine/34468/ ... on-cut-off

Maybe you guys know more about what they're talking about here.

[Holm86]

Interesting interview with Lowe. He is both talking engine and brakes.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34VZvCse-pM[/youtube]

[321apex]

Interesting interview with Lowe. He is both talking engine and brakes.

Indeed fascinating insight from the front line of F1 engineering effort. What struck me was MB ability to feed the NGU-H generated electrical power directly into the MGU-K while the car is speeding down the straight. All that while this energy is bypassing the battery storage system, which means that it is not accounted for in the MJ allowances per lap.

I find it fascinating and am curious as to the magnitude of electrical power (kW) can MGU-H generate while engine runs at it's peak song.