F1 airfoils

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fedegar91
fedegar91
2
Joined: 25 Mar 2014, 21:19

F1 airfoils

Post

Hi guys. Here it is a new user in this forum. I've seen it for the first time a few months ago but registered today :roll: .

I'm making the last year project for my degree (engineering) in F1 front wings. Through the last weeks I've entered here searching for some info to help me. Sometimes it is easier to understand net users rather than a book with just equations... So there are some posts about CFD, wings and stuff like that, which are pretty cool to have some basic knowledge. But I couldn't find any post in here or in the internet refered to the airfoils F1 teams are using (coordinates). OK, it's probably confidential data, but some shapes could be get by photos or inverse engineering.

So I thought to make a specific post for these little guys called airfoils. In this post we can put the info we have about airfoils.

The little information I could find tell me that there is one guy called Enrico Benzing (http://www.benzing.it/enrico.profili.htm) who has made a great job in designing the shapes for high lift coefficient wings in motorsport. I've made some fast 2D calculations for each of them, and got CL from 1.5 to 2.0 (max. @ -12º aprox.) and CD from 0.08 to 0.15. I've used XFLR5 instead visualfoil or Xfoil, and just the wing without any kind of flap. Re from 6E5 to 1.2E6 (v=50-100m/s), and then I've made the average of the solutions. I think they are good numbers compared to NACA and other "commercial" profiles. What do you think about these?

And some points of interest we can discuss here:

·Do the F1 airfoils change in every race?
·What kind of airfoils are used now and in the past? Are the coordinates available? Or at least an approximate shape.
·What about the CL, CD (and efficiency) numbers? I've read the common is about CL 4 for a front wing.

Thanks in advance, I hope this post could be useful for people in the same situation as me :mrgreen: . Bye 8)
Last edited by fedegar91 on 26 Mar 2014, 16:25, edited 1 time in total.

shelly
shelly
136
Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: F1 airfoils

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Hello fedegar, welcome. Besides Benzing book, you can find some good references about aifoils and aero in two must.have books: "race car aerodynamics" by katz and "ferrari f1-2000" by wright. Probably you already have them.
Also the Bernoulli magazine is a very good source.

About your questions, as far as I know (I may be wrong):

- profile are different throughout the year, at least 4-5 different types. Rule limiting the rear wing in the last years have reduced the variation though, you carry a lot more wing also in tracks like canada

- Craig Scarborough (scarbs on this forum, @scarbsf1 on twitter) has the data file for a recent rear wing profile available - I think he will send it to you if you ask for it

- coefficients may vary depending on what reference you take (see the thread "how much is a point of downforce"). if you take as C the product surface*coefficient (which multiplied by dynamic pressure gives the aero force), you should have for a current f1 car in medium downforce trim:

CL>4 CD ~ 1.2 for the full car
CL around 1.5 for the front wing assembly,
CL around 1.2 for the rear wing assembly, with an efficiency around 7-8.

There are some numbers floating on the web also:
- here on f1technical in the thread "ferrari declares some aero data"
- in a recent interview to a f1 aerodynamicst by Petr Hlawiczka:
http://f1news.autoroad.cz/rozhovory/469 ... e/#English
- if you look for some old proceedings of the force india vs aerolab trial

Top source for current aero info on twitter is @F1_aero
twitter: @armchair_aero

fedegar91
fedegar91
2
Joined: 25 Mar 2014, 21:19

Re: F1 airfoils

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shelly wrote:(...)
There are some numbers floating on the web also:
- here on f1technical in the thread "ferrari declares some aero data"
- in a recent interview to a f1 aerodynamicst by Petr Hlawiczka:
http://f1news.autoroad.cz/rozhovory/469 ... e/#English
- if you look for some old proceedings of the force india vs aerolab trial

Top source for current aero info on twitter is @F1_aero
Thank you shelly for your fast answer. I was hoping to have some text books apart of the "Bible" Fundamentals of Aerodynamics (Anderson). I'll look around for a local shop (or amazon books) to have a copy (I don't have them by now). Also I have a look to the links provided. The fact is I'm really excited to study the front wings, which are very different of the rear ones. Anyway, I think, with your information, I have something to start with. I'll try to talk to scarbs, I hope him to be "accessible" :oops: .

Thanks again for sharing ;) byes.

shelly
shelly
136
Joined: 05 May 2009, 12:18

Re: F1 airfoils

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if you are looking for reference about fornt wings:

-old 2004 work by Zhang and Zerihan "Edge Vortices of a Double-ElementWing in Ground Effect" - full pdf on internet; you can search for who has cited it on google scholar to find other relevant sources
-2011 work by Heyder Bruckner "The aerodynamics of an inverted wing and a rotating wheel in ground effect", that you find here. http://eprints.soton.ac.uk/207263/
-2013 thesis by Gritta in collaboration with Toro Rosso: http://www.aero.polimi.it/~quadrio/it/T ... gritta.pdf
twitter: @armchair_aero

flyboy2160
flyboy2160
84
Joined: 25 Apr 2011, 17:05

Re: F1 airfoils

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Thanks Shelly from others of us who like this stuff. ****Sigh***** It's much better than all the fan boy nonsense.

Flyboy Steve

p.s. Although I guess we could get into airfoil-fanboy wars: Roncz! No Eppler! No NACA!!

User avatar
turbof1
Moderator
Joined: 19 Jul 2012, 21:36
Location: MountDoom CFD Matrix

Re: F1 airfoils

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The moment I saw this topic I knew flyboy would love it :P.

I also believe this a very good topic. I'm not 100% sure, but it might be worth to go through McCabe's blogposts:
http://mccabism.blogspot.be/

You might find useful stuff there about front wing aerofoils (airfoils or aerofoils?).
#AeroFrodo

Lycoming
Lycoming
106
Joined: 25 Aug 2011, 22:58

Re: F1 airfoils

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flyboy2160 wrote:p.s. Although I guess we could get into airfoil-fanboy wars: Roncz! No Eppler! No NACA!![/i]
Selig > all. End of airfoil-fanboy wars.

fedegar91
fedegar91
2
Joined: 25 Mar 2014, 21:19

Re: F1 airfoils

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Thank you all for the information and positive feedback :wink:

Blanchimont
Blanchimont
214
Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:47

Re: F1 airfoils

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What about Liebeck?

Image

Or this multi multi airfoil?

Image

Some reading:
http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason ... resPt1.pdf
http://www.dept.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason ... resPt2.pdf (powered lift)
Dear FIA, if you read this, please pm me for a redesign of the Technical Regulations to avoid finger nose shapes for 2016! :-)