Red Bull exceed fuel flow limit, Ricciardo DSQ at Australian GP

[Cam]

The problem Red Bull have is the FIA have been crystal clear what will be deemed acceptable or not.
All teams where told to comply with measurements, even if they where not 100% accurate. The FIA being aware of the issue informed teams to abide so as not to create a situation as we had in Oz.
Ontop of this, all the other teams have complied by going with the FIA measurements at the Oz gp.

Ontop of that, the FIA asked Red Bull to conform to their measurements TWICE.

Now Red Bull claim the FIA instruments are inaccurate and they will run their own completely eschewing everything the FIA have asked.

Well the fia can very easily penalise red bull in another fashion.
Reinstate the team, but add a 50 second penalty for going over the prescribed fuel flow in relation to all other teams. This way red bull can finish the race but earn no points.

It's a mockery of F1 and the teams competing against red bull that they can run their own measurements and to hell with the sport, and the competition.

What on earth are you on about? Horner has (very kindly) explained exactly his position. Teams can run whatever they what - inside the rules. Any other team is free to do the same - whether they choose to do so or not, is their prerogative. Just as it is every individual teams prerogative whether to challenge a said FIA mid-race direction, post-race ruling or published TD.

It could be argued Red Bull have been pushed to this. The DSQ was a step too far, it wasn't good for the sport. It's also arguable that the FIA has targeted them for too long. It's almost always Red Bull in the firing line with these TD's and rule changes... enough is enough, it seems.

It's not Red Bulls fault that the rules are written the way they are - so why the constant criticism at how they (and other teams) interpret them?

The FIA made the bed they are in - it's time to lie in it. Any fallout from this is solely on the rule makers head and their ability to draft appropriate regulations. Perhaps now they will first think about what they are doing, before acting, for a change.

[Cam]

I think the thing that will bite RBR in the butt when it comes to technical directives, is that they have abide-ed by them in the past. for example in Monaco 2012, They had holes in their floor. They removed them before the next race because of a technical directive. That is a Precedent (imo) saying TDs need to be followed.

If the FIA did not DSQ Ricciardo - I think the status quo would have remained. The 'gentlemen's agreement' to follow TD's would still be in place today. The FIA could have published a further TD to clear up Red Bulls concerns (as they done in the past), Red Bull would have fallen into line for following races - as they have previously done. Red Bull was never DSQ before. I think it's that simple.

[turbof1]

I can understand where both sides are coming from:

-Red Bull sees that the fuel sensor isn't accurate, so feels they should be allowed to run more within the rules. It should be noted that it's safe to assume they knew every team would follow the FIA directions, so red bull knew they could have a relative advantage out of this. I personally don't really have an issue with that: that's what the sport is about and as long it happened within the window of 100kg/h, that's ok.

-On the other hand we have a technical directive, drawn up long before the race started, stating the fia has the sole right to allow a team to go to the backup system. It's understandable why this is that way: else every team could turn to their own systems, which could be intentionally flawed. Here I feel Red Bull should have followed the fia. It has to be noted that after several decades of using the directives, we suddenly find us in the situation were the legality of techical directives is being questioned.

Just without any concern for rules and such, I feel both sides have a point. I feel most people, including red bull and the fia, are too one-sided on this subject. Realise that the term truth is often multi-dimensional.

I'm sure the fia isn't targeting red bull. Red Bull has a tendency to push the rules to the extreme, which again I'm happy about. That's f1. But naturally that means you'll get the fia and red bull colliding more with eachother then the other teams would.

[FoxHound]

@cam

What am I on about?

Let me be clearer if I wasnt enough before.
Do you think it is acceptable for red bull to flagrantly disregard the fia request to not create a storm over this?
And then Disregard 2 further requests in race?

[dans79]

I think the thing that will bite RBR in the butt when it comes to technical directives, is that they have abide-ed by them in the past. for example in Monaco 2012, They had holes in their floor. They removed them before the next race because of a technical directive. That is a Precedent (imo) saying TDs need to be followed.

If the FIA did not DSQ Ricciardo - I think the status quo would have remained. The 'gentlemen's agreement' to follow TD's would still be in place today. The FIA could have published a further TD to clear up Red Bulls concerns (as they done in the past), Red Bull would have fallen into line for following races - as they have previously done. Red Bull was never DSQ before. I think it's that simple.

They had plenty of time to fall in line, the technical directive that said that the mandated sensor was the only fuel measurement device that mattered was issued march 1st, 2 weeks before the race.

[djos]

Porsche critical of F1 fuel flow meter

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/news ... flow-meter

More evidence that the Gill sensor is not currently fit for use in F1!

And seriously, LeMans petrol cars need 2 and diesel cars need 3 of them???? FFS that is just mental!

[FoxHound]

How is the FIA asking/mandating the teams run faulty fuel sensors, and to turn down their engines, not effecting the outcome of races and thereby the show??

Now that is a mockery of F1, using directives to try and force teams to use sensors with known issues.

All RBR did is call them out on this as they followed the letter of the rules. The fact the FIA stewards ruined the race and made a mockery of the show, especially for AUS fans, is down to their own doing.

I would say the FIA and their insistence through the directive to

So take matters into your own hands and gain the advantage right?

[djos]

@cam

What am I on about?

Let me be clearer if I wasnt enough before.
Do you think it is acceptable for red bull to flagrantly disregard the fia request to not create a storm over this?
And then Disregard 2 further requests in race?

Do you think it's acceptable for the FIA to mandate inaccurate homologated parts that are demonstrably inconsistent?

I don't!

[dans79]

And seriously, LeMans petrol cars need 2 and diesel cars need 3 of them???? FFS that is just mental!

now you're just complaining to complain, you don't even know why they need 2 or 3.... For all you know, it could be because of how fuel lines are configured......

[dans79]

Do you think it's acceptable for the FIA to mandate inaccurate homologated parts that are demonstrably inconsistent?

I don't!

Proof that they are inaccurate...... The only proof you have is sound bites from blowhards.

[FoxHound]

@djos

Are they inaccurate for Red Bull and Red Bull alone?

[djos]

@djos

Are they inaccurate for Red Bull and Red Bull alone?

Porsche and Mercedes have also questioned their accuracy.

[djos]

Do you think it's acceptable for the FIA to mandate inaccurate homologated parts that are demonstrably inconsistent?

I don't!

Proof that they are inaccurate...... The only proof you have is sound bites from blowhards.

Porsche haven't even raced the FFM and already they've flagged doubts about its readiness for use!

[FoxHound]

@djos

Are they inaccurate for Red Bull and Red Bull alone?

Porsche and Mercedes have also questioned their accuracy.

We know they are inaccurate to an extent.

My point is that they are not inaccurate for Red Bull alone. Therefore, Red Bull gained an advantage on others adhering to a directive.
That is just not right at all.

[Cam]

Therefore, Red Bull gained an advantage on others adhering to a directive.
That is just not right at all.

But every other team had the same avenue open to them as Red Bull did - they chose not to exercise it.

Do you think it is acceptable for red bull to flagrantly disregard the fia request to not create a storm over this? And then Disregard 2 further requests in race?

Red Bull followed the rules - to the letter. An opposing question to you - was the FIA right to demand Red Bull follow a direction that was not in the rules? When you look at it that way, who was advantaged then? Every other team.

ARTICLE 1.1 INTERNATIONAL REGULATIONS OF MOTOR SPORT
1.1.1 The FIA shall be the sole international sporting authority entitled to make and enforce regulations based on the fundamental principles of safety and sporting fairness, for the encouragement and control of automobile Competitions, and to organise FIA International Championships.

With the FIA demanding Red Bull that they must not adhere to the rules, they are themselves not following the rules.

Do you see the mess? I also see both sides, I simply ask for others to do the same.