Schumacher ski accident, coma and recovery

[acosmichippo]

Schumacher isn't even on a breathing machine...

As far as I know, there has been no word that he's been taken off the breathing machine. Given the PR strategy they've use so far, that is probably news we would have heard if it happened.

Euthanising somebody because things aren't going as fast as the fans are wanting and hoping is rediculous.
Schumacher actually WAS awake and adressable right after the accident, but slip into serious aftermath issues and was induced into a coma to prevent him from getting even more serious 'damage'.
If the brain recieved similar damage as he did to his motorcycle accident, then indeed he may never wake up again due too excessive brain damage. But doctors were quick to treat him with the best options they had at their disposal.

That doesn't mean "don't worry he'll be fine" but it certainly doesn't mean "hey we expected more from this guy, lets drop it and kill him" as if he's some toy that a child gets bored with after a while.

I don't think anyone is actually suggesting that they kill him - just wondering if it's something the family may be considering, or may consider at some point in the future. Given how little we know about his likelihood of recovery and quality of life possible thereafter, there's no reason to rule it out. I think you're going a little too far by saying it's disrespectful to simply bring it up in conversation.

[ringo]

Whatever his situation is, I hope he's alive to at the end of all this. He doesn't need to be 25% the guy he used to be. As long as he's around that would be good. If they can wake him up before he's gone to far for recovery that'd be great as well.
Sir Frank Williams is a good example. He's here and able to tell of his experiences. He's not half the guy he used to be physically, but he's still around. In whatever capacity Shumacher may be, paraplegic, or quadriplegic, whatever it is, it's good enough that he's alive and aware and people know that he's aware of them. That's all that really should matter.

Deep in the back of my mind, i'm seeing him as deceased already. I really hope a miracle works out for him.

[xpensive]

I saw an interview with Liam Neeson on 60 minutes, where he described what happened after his wife, Natasha Richardson,
had a similar accident as Michael Schumacher. He revealed that they had an agreement between them, that would one of them end up in a vegetative state, the other one should pull the plug. Which is what Neeson did, a brave man indeed.

http://hollywoodlife.com/2014/02/24/lia ... versation/

[timbo]

The modern neurophysical research show us how little we know about brain functioning and malfunctioning. The "vegetative state" is very general term, prognosis in case by case situations might be wildly different.

[Shrieker]

I would never pull the plug on a loved one. However hopeless it might be. There's always a chance while one yet breathes.

[Just_a_fan]

In whatever capacity Shumacher may be, paraplegic, or quadriplegic, whatever it is, it's good enough that he's alive and aware and people know that he's aware of them. That's all that really should matter.

Yeah, that might be the case for the fans but he may have a very different view of it. I reckon some of the family might hold a different view too. If you love someone you shouldn't put your needs ahead of theirs - if he has even mentioned in passing that the thought of being in a vegetative state horrifies him then that should guide the overall direction of his treatment.

I have been very open with my family that if it comes down to the decision between dead and vegetable then I'd rather be dead thanks. I'd rather they made use of my organs to help others have a full and long life thanks. Sure, treatment might be developed that helps those in a VS but it also might not and mere "existence" is not the same as "alive".

[FoxHound]

But we do not know what Schumacher's wishes are.

To a man in this forum, we all wish him a return to normality. But it looks now as if that is way too optimistic.
At the end of the day, Schumacher is one of those people that fashions chances out of nothing. That is more than just a conscious process, it is ingrained into him.
Maybe when Schumacher was walking talking and doing his thing, he would have said this state is not something he be made to endure.
However, whilst in this state he still has life. He is not suffering from excessive pain, and he has his family around him 10 hours a day.
If Schumacher could answer the question, I have no doubt that he would stay on to fight through this in the "whatever it takes" attitude he is renowned for.

[Richard]

I'm glad to see most posters talking about their own thoughts rather than trying to second guess what is right for Schumacher. After all when we engage in conjecture we're normally protecting our own thoughts and expectations. I'm also minded of the expression about not wish for others what you would not want done for yourself.

That's also the dilemma for the surviving relatives. Are their actions driven by their own concerns, or do they genuinely know what the patient wants? If we learn one thing from all this then we'll have that conversation with our families and record the outcome, if only to partially ease the pain of those making choices on our behalf.

[CBeck113]

I'm glad to see most posters talking about their own thoughts rather than trying to second guess what is right for Schumacher. After all when we engage in conjecture we're normally protecting our own thoughts and expectations. I'm also minded of the expression about not wish for others what you would not want done for yourself.

That's also the dilemma for the surviving relatives. Are their actions driven by their own concerns, or do they genuinely know what the patient wants? If we learn one thing from all this then we'll have that conversation with our families and record the outcome, if only to partially ease the pain of those making choices on our behalf.

I wholely agree with you Richard. The sadness we feel when someone dies is our own loss, not that of the person who has passed. We therefore use this as a premice in discussions and, if we are in the horrible situation, to make decisions for others using our own feelings & fears. I believe that we need to let our loved ones know what we want for ourselves, and find out what they want for themselves.
I have been avoiding this thread because of my morals which tell me that this situation is a family matter only, and no one "deserves" to be informed of MS's condition except his family. I think it is terrible for him, moreso for his family, and they deserve their peace, whether he is famous or not. Yes, I would like to know how he's doing; since he's so popular he has a spokesperson who will release information when his family deems it necessary. His family is going through hell, show respect and be patient.

[xpensive]

It's a complicated issue as assisted euthanasia is not legal in most countries, even if the person is conscious and "wants" it.

My own mother suffered badly from Alzheimers and when she finally left us, I believe it was a relief for all of her family.

[FoxHound]

It's a complicated issue as assisted euthanasia is not legal in most countries, even if the person is conscious and "wants" it.

My own mother suffered badly from Alzheimers and when she finally left us, I believe it was a relief for all of her family.

Terrible as that is, we only know truly when we are in the situation. Even then it is no so much a thought process as it is an urge to survive.
For me at least, if there is no pain and suffering then I would choose life even if in a more simplified form.
That is just my opinion and I can see why some people would choose assisted euthanasia.

[NormalChris]

I think Michael's family is on the religious side iirc. I think that would play a big role in termination of life support, as well as other considerations. I know none of my family members, and can't even think of a close friend who'd rather be kept alive in a vegetative state than "turned off". My guess is they knew as early as the first week that it would take a miracle for him to regain any useful function. As tragic as it is I'd much rather see him put to rest now while his impact to the world is still fresh. Otherwise he may just slowly wither away and one day ten years from now when he passes he'll get a paragraph or two in the major media news. Still can't believe it.

[ringo]

In whatever capacity Shumacher may be, paraplegic, or quadriplegic, whatever it is, it's good enough that he's alive and aware and people know that he's aware of them. That's all that really should matter.

Yeah, that might be the case for the fans but he may have a very different view of it. I reckon some of the family might hold a different view too. If you love someone you shouldn't put your needs ahead of theirs - if he has even mentioned in passing that the thought of being in a vegetative state horrifies him then that should guide the overall direction of his treatment.

I have been very open with my family that if it comes down to the decision between dead and vegetable then I'd rather be dead thanks. I'd rather they made use of my organs to help others have a full and long life thanks. Sure, treatment might be developed that helps those in a VS but it also might not and mere "existence" is not the same as "alive".

Don't get me wrong I don't want him to be in a vegetative state. I'm saying if it is that there's the choice between waking up then being a guy in a motorized wheel chair with a helper monkey, versus being perpetually kept alive on the ICU for fear of complications while waking up, maybe being in a wheel chair and being able to communicate with loved ones and live some semblance of life is better.

As for pulling the plug, I think that's mostly not his wishes, but his family's feelings about him suffering. No one can know his thoughts unless he's had the discussion, and even then no one will know if while in the battle for life he changes his mind and choses to fight on because beyond death is an unknown.
Well what do i know anyway, I'd guess most of you here have the first world luxuries of fancy ICUs , world class health care and the opportunity to make these "pull the plug" choices. As for me, if I hit my head on rock on some remote mountain, that's it; goodbye world.

[Kiril Varbanov]

Sabine Kehm told Bild that there are encouraging signs in MSC's condition.

[Gaz.]

I would never pull the plug on a loved one. However hopeless it might be. There's always a chance while one yet breathes.

Although you have to respect their wishes too, assuming you know their thoughts or if you've talked about it, likewise for DNR it certain cases. I should imagine it is worse for parents of patients under 16. At least with an adult you hope that you have informed consent when following their wishes.