Sauber C34 Ferrari

[outer_bongolia]

I am trying to understand the logic behind the design of this car.

In the front end, it looks like they are trying to use the nose to generate downforce instead of the wings. The nose tip is like a four by four. It has the pelican-bottom that narrows like a water drop as it goes back. The triple vanes by the front wheels try to move some more air underneath it. Top of the nose section seems to be curved inward (compare this to mclaren, ferrari, merc) which also supports my initial point. But the tip of the nose seems like it will just squeeze air into the middle of the front wing and create a lot of drag for no gain.

The front wing is pretty ugly, too. Single piece top wing is pretty flat and looks more like a flow conditioner. The middle stage of the lower wing looks just ridiculously thick towards the inside. The inner portion of the bottom assembly (white, shiny section) seems to be designed to move the air inwards. I suspect it will stall regularly.

Overall I'm very worried about this car's performance.

[trinidefender]

I am trying to understand the logic behind the design of this car.

In the front end, it looks like they are trying to use the nose to generate downforce instead of the wings. The nose tip is like a four by four. It has the pelican-bottom that narrows like a water drop as it goes back. The triple vanes by the front wheels try to move some more air underneath it. Top of the nose section seems to be curved inward (compare this to mclaren, ferrari, merc) which also supports my initial point. But the tip of the nose seems like it will just squeeze air into the middle of the front wing and create a lot of drag for no gain.

The front wing is pretty ugly, too. Single piece top wing is pretty flat and looks more like a flow conditioner. The middle stage of the lower wing looks just ridiculously thick towards the inside. The inner portion of the bottom assembly (white, shiny section) seems to be designed to move the air inwards. I suspect it will stall regularly.

Overall I'm very worried about this car's performance.

And I suspect this post shows what you know about aerodynamics.

You said "narrows like a water drop as it goes back." Just a question but have you ever stopped and wondered why water drops are the shape that they are? They are that shape because as the water droplets fall, the airflow moving around them shapes them into the shape that causes the least possible drag. The less drag there is then the less you disturb the airflow moving around an object. They are aiming for the shape that creates the least possible disturbance to the airflow moving around it. Now as the airflow passes the widest part the nose tip tapers inwards drawing air back inwards to go between the front wing pylons. In my eyes it may be ugly but I do not believe it is a bad concept per say.

Onto the front wing. You do realise that the top flap of the front wing is adjustable and if you look at the comparison pictures you will notice that the very same top flap is at a much higher angle in the pic from last year. Btw just a question, what actually constitutes a "flow conditioner?" You do realise that wings on aircraft are flatter than that top flap in its flattest position yet those are still wings.

The white shiny part on the front wing will actually do two things. It will help to push airflow inwards underneath he nose to the T-tray and it creates a vortex that flows back and goes around the sidepod.

Considering Sauber run this wing most of last year unchanged then I'm pretty sure that they would have figured out if it is stalling or not.

Please people....stop with these "this part looks simple/under-developed/ugly/whatever" posts so the X/Y/Z part/car is rubbish posts.

[SectorOne]

You said "narrows like a water drop as it goes back." Just a question but have you ever stopped and wondered why water drops are the shape that they are? They are that shape because as the water droplets fall, the airflow moving around them shapes them into the shape that causes the least possible drag.

That´s simply not true. The water droplet you speak of is a manmade creation, it do not exist in nature.



edit: and another one,

And I suspect this post shows what you know about aerodynamics.

Hm,

[trinidefender]

You said "narrows like a water drop as it goes back." Just a question but have you ever stopped and wondered why water drops are the shape that they are? They are that shape because as the water droplets fall, the airflow moving around them shapes them into the shape that causes the least possible drag.

That´s simply not true. The water droplet you speak of is a manmade creation, it do not exist in nature.

http://water.usgs.gov/edu/graphics/wcpr ... shapes.gif

edit: and another one,

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... es.svg.png

And I suspect this post shows what you know about aerodynamics.

Hm,

Fair enough. For some reason I feel like I have seen some article or something similar to that in the past.

My point remains. As per the most aerodynamic shape the water droplet shape, I.e. Rounded at the front and then tapering to the back, is quite close to ideal in terms of least drag caused for a shape of a certain cross sectional area and/or volume.

[wesley123]

The front wing is pretty ugly, too. Single piece top wing is pretty flat and looks more like a flow conditioner. The middle stage of the lower wing looks just ridiculously thick towards the inside. The inner portion of the bottom assembly (white, shiny section) seems to be designed to move the air inwards. I suspect it will stall regularly.

Based on?

[rich1701]

When you compare this to the toro rosso for example, you realise how conventional it is. So conventional that I fear they will be the backmarkers this year.

[Manoah2u]

The negativity rules, i see.

Sauber's last year contender looked fast, looked stunning but was slow as a snail. A totally different concept thus
is a step in the right direction. Let's see what happens during the Melbourne weekend. Meanwhile, Sauber contracted
new drivers, has new sponsors and a fresh new livery. Very good, because the grey and years of emptyness was
horrible to watch.

Meanwhile, Ferrari and likes will get defended when there are -possible- doubts of whether it's the final product because slight hints of old front and rear wings, and there will be updates for Melbourne.

Offcourse there will be, and offcourse the same will go for sauber. Come on!

This is not the final product, this is a reveal vehicle. The front wing will be hugely adapted before the Melbourne Qually.
They'll test and test, adapt, and evolve the design.

There's a reason behind this design philosophy and it's been layed down by greater minds then armchair specialists here that have no clue of aerodynamics nor see the bigger whole in the entire concept.

[Richard]

The front wing is pretty ugly, too. Single piece top wing is pretty flat and looks more like a flow conditioner. The middle stage of the lower wing looks just ridiculously thick towards the inside. The inner portion of the bottom assembly (white, shiny section) seems to be designed to move the air inwards. I suspect it will stall regularly.

Based on?

Some people think looking at flat images from distance is much more reliable than a team with the full CFD model and wind tunnel

[Shakeman]

This is not the final product, this is a reveal vehicle. The front wing will be hugely adapted before the Melbourne Qually.
They'll test and test, adapt, and evolve the design.

There's a reason behind this design philosophy and it's been layed down by greater minds then armchair specialists here that have no clue of aerodynamics nor see the bigger whole in the entire concept.

Well said, this is F1T bullshit bingo season.

It's the same every year the armchair Neweys clog up the board every year. If a Marussia was rolled out with red Bull livery it would be hailed as a design classic and world beater.

There's not a human on this planet who can determine relative performance from images.

[Intego]

...
There's not a human on this planet who can determine relative performance from images.

Don't offend Scarbs ...

[stefan_]

2015 Winter testing | Session 1, Day 1 - Jerez de la Frontera, Spain (01.02.2015)

[timbo]

Looks much better on track than on photos

[Sulman]

I know it is just testing, but compared to last year they're going very well.

[FrukostScones]

[dren]

If they get their balance issues sorted, they should be in reasonable shape. The Ferrari PU looks to be a bit better this year, too. I expect Sauber to make a good bump in performance.