Lotus E23 Mercedes

[AlainProst]

Your idea is really interesting but this system create more drag than a classic nose isn't it ?

What do you call a "moustache" ?

Would you have a picture of this new nose cone ? This in order to make a comparison because I must admit I didn't have noticed this detail. But is this nose has been used during malaysian race or was it just during free practice 2 ?

On your picture, we can see that just a small air flow can pass between the nose pylons, so is it penalizing for the airflow which has to go to the diffuser ? Or is it okay because, despite the high pressure area in front of the nose cone, the flow goes still to diffuser?

Thanks in advance for your answers and scuse me again for my bad English !

[chuckdanny]

Of course downforce comes at a price, always, but there are more efficient ways than others, diffuser are known to be more efficient as they work differently pumping the air and the ground effect.
I'm not discussing nose in general but within the given set of rules of this year, you must have a low nose, i don't remember exactly how it is written in the rule book but it is known for example than redbull started with the long version because they failed in the crash test, so i'm emphasizing the advantage of a short one which seems to win many voters.
As for the air feeding the diffuser, when we say more air we mean per second!

I think that the nose problem is not so much drag as the frontal surface is pretty small but rather the lift that it generates, i may be wrong, i'm not an expert!

The high noses where capturing more clean air but it was to be used above the floor not under. And those were the days of low side hot blowing, we're in the high cold central blowing days, what comes in must go out.

For lotus, they maybe needed this little nose modification to cope with higher air temp especially near a track at 60°C
The moustache? are you kidding? the thing hanging below the nose...

[AlainProst]

Is this solution was using during the race in malaysia ?

This solution is probably better for low speed tracks as Monaco or Singapore and they could be have their first nose for races as China or Italy. What do you think about that?

Remember you this discussion has began after the declaration of Chester who said they'll have a new nose and a new front wing for China and Barcelona, so, this nose isn't probably the final version, they could find a compromise between the two versions in order to reduce the drag and increase the downforce of the front of the car. If I don't say a mistake, it was the rear of the car which lacks of downforce last year on the E22 and the current rear wing is the same this year so they should work more on the rear of the car but anyway, last year, it was all of the car which was deficient.

I want ask you a last question : Do you think really this car can enter to the top 5 ?

Personally, I'm a little more pesimistic than Lotus guys because this car has not any big innovation and there is too many old parts of 2014 car so I can't believe that this car could sign a good result. Furthermore, contrary to old victorious Lotus of 2012 and 2013, this E23 seems degrade more his tyres than others cars. So I wait wait your opinion about that and say me also if my English is correct or not !

[chuckdanny]

Well, they have an innovative engine. The sensors are not so great
I think they didn't receive the right software version with it.

Allison let a conceptual bomb before living (was he angry?) with this low but cuted nose which led to massive diffuser stall because it wasn't necessary anymore to feed so much air without exhaust blowing, a consecutive idea...

I heard though that it had similar pace as williams at times, they where more in traffic so used there tires a bit more and grojean had another sensor problem so there is hope. A shame that he didn't pass Hulkenberg's force india, it would have been another race.

[AlainProst]

Okay but you don't answer at my questions

Indeed, the principal difference between the E22 and the E23 is the new Mercedes engine, but, aerodynamically, the car don't innove really except they change their catastrophic double nose and thinest sidepods and cooling exits, that is to say just enough to allow the car back in the top 10 but not more. And even without his accident with Perez, Grosjean could not finish better than p8.And if he had overtook Hulkenberg during the first laps, after the SC, his race wouldn't have been changed. As for the story of the failed sensor, I'm afraid it was an excuse for their poor results...

And don't forget my questions on my previous post

[AlainProst]

Chester affirms they'll introduce new aerodynamic pieces (rear and front) in China

[chuckdanny]

One question at a time, s'il vous plait monsieurs

The short nose effect :

[AlainProst]

One question at a time, s'il vous plait monsieurs

The short nose effect :
http://oi58.tinypic.com/10cuuzq.jpg

Merci beaucoup, vous parlez presque couramment français ! Seriously, your pictures are very interesting. What software are you doing these simulation ? I'm really impressed !

But Idon't understand all the picture. This doesn't correspond to the F1 proportions or is it me who is wrong ? could you have a three-quarters view of this simulation in order to have a clearer idea of this ? Indeed, the problem on this view is that we can't see all (for example at the top of the front wing). Furthermore, your simulation represents only the pressure on the bodywork of the car isn't it ? so, it's different than your first picture.

Thanks in advance

[chuckdanny]

Yes static pressure
White toward blue => negative relative pressure (suction)
White toward red => positive relative pressure (push)



It's a little guess estimate proportion but not too far off, i think it is enough to get a good idea of the flow

[AlainProst]

I'm so impressed ! What a good and beautiful work ! Here, we can easily see this you were explaining yesterday ! Indeed we see the high pressure in the front of the nose and the wing. So you think these low-noses allow a high pressure area on the top of the neutral area of the front wing ? It's could be exact but I think it's less advantageous than 2014 noses, but more performant than Williams or Red bull noses...

Could you realise the same type of simulation but with a Ferrari / McLaren nose ? These two noses should be less performant because the should create a LOW pressure area on the top of the neutral section of the wing. What do you think about that ?

[chuckdanny]

Yes i will try mclaren/ferrari style, during chinese grand prix practice.

[PlatinumZealot]

Yes static pressure
White toward blue => negative relative pressure (suction)
White toward red => positive relative pressure (push)

http://oi61.tinypic.com/11t0qxi.jpg

It's a little guess estimate proportion but not too far off, i think it is enough to get a good idea of the flow

Great attempts. The proportions are very, very important though as there is no way to find the small differences if the model is not accurate.

[chuckdanny]

I won't get the exact true numbers but for the purpose of assessing the pros and cons of both kind of design (and a third one )
it still is good enough, i hope!
My nose tip is too large for example.
I mean, for a short nose concept there are variations, i am between lotus and mercedes let's say...

@prost
yes, it's like a capacitor in electronics, a plus and a minus near each others but there is a spill in between

[AlainProst]

According to Craig Scarborough This is the new nose of the Lotus. Personally, I can not distinguish the differences

[Raleigh]

Looks like the tip is a little shorter and flatter?