Pull Rod Suspension

[ham2000]

does anyone have info on its components ans operation etc plus pictures of this type of suspension on the cars
thanks

[mx_tifoso]

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BTW, welcome to F1T.

[xpensive]

I believe the pull-rod suspension was de rigeur in F1 in the 80s, rods should in principle be pulled and not pushed. Until the higher strength of carbon fiber as well as the superior adjustment flexibility of the push-rod arrangement took over.

[riff_raff]

Pull rod suspensions were popular for a while in F1, since the thin section pull rod had less drag penalty than a push rod. But most cars reverted to push rods since the thin section pull rod could not handle the compressive forces required for suspension rebound dampening.

Torsionally stiff F1 chassis tubs with aero configurations that are super sensitive to changes in pitch and roll, require all four tires to be in constant contact with the track under cornering, acceleration and braking. So if a wheel gets bumped up going over a curb in a corner, it needs to be pushed back down onto the track ASAP by the suspension pushrod. How quickly the suspension responds is a function of the rebound force. A stiff push rod can accept more force than a thin push rod in compression, so a pushrod suspension would allow higher rebound rates and would have better mechanical grip in cornering than a pull rod system.

[The_Man]

The August RacecarEngineering has a good article on the advantages and disadvantages of Pull rods specifically referring to the Red Bull suspension this year.

[Richard]

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viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6350

[FW17]

Ferrari pull rod suspension the springs are arranged vertically as in the conventional push rod suspension.

In the 90's F1 cars springs were arranged horizontally, would this have been more of a benefit for Ferrari had they adopted it?

[PhillipM]

Pull rod suspensions were popular for a while in F1, since the thin section pull rod had less drag penalty than a push rod. But most cars reverted to push rods since the thin section pull rod could not handle the compressive forces required for suspension rebound dampening.

Torsionally stiff F1 chassis tubs with aero configurations that are super sensitive to changes in pitch and roll, require all four tires to be in constant contact with the track under cornering, acceleration and braking. So if a wheel gets bumped up going over a curb in a corner, it needs to be pushed back down onto the track ASAP by the suspension pushrod. How quickly the suspension responds is a function of the rebound force. A stiff push rod can accept more force than a thin push rod in compression, so a pushrod suspension would allow higher rebound rates and would have better mechanical grip in cornering than a pull rod system.

Would be true if it wasn't for the fact that the springs are on the same side of the pullrod as the dampers

Push rods allow you to run weaker lower wishbones because they react a lot of the force through the pushrod, so it tends to actually end up lighter and thinner as an assembly compared to a pull rod, even though in isolation it should be worse.

[riff_raff]

Would be true if it wasn't for the fact that the springs are on the same side of the pullrod as the dampers

But the largest masses/inertias that the dampener is designed to control are attached to the far end of the the pull rod. One important requirement of rebound is to ensure the tire maintains contact with the track surface after bump travel. The slender pull rod is very limited in the amount of force that can be applied by the spring to force the tire/wheel back onto the track surface after a bump motion. The same is true with transfer of roll bar forces from side to side. The amount of force that a slender pull rod can handle in compression without buckling is very limited.

[PlatinumZealot]

Ferrari pull rod suspension the springs are arranged vertically as in the conventional push rod suspension.

In the 90's F1 cars springs were arranged horizontally, would this have been more of a benefit for Ferrari had they adopted it?

http://community.evo.co.uk/users/PRM/ph ... 31542b.jpg

You mean the dampers of course?

[FW17]

Ferrari pull rod suspension the springs are arranged vertically as in the conventional push rod suspension.

In the 90's F1 cars springs were arranged horizontally, would this have been more of a benefit for Ferrari had they adopted it?

http://community.evo.co.uk/users/PRM/ph ... 31542b.jpg

You mean the dampers of course?

Means the same (I hope)

Wont a horizontal be better for COG and access? Are there more advantages to the vertical arrangement?

Are teams using dampers in addition to a torsion bar or is it only a torsion bar?

[PlatinumZealot]

The springs, are about 30 degrees from vertical in the photo and only the dampers are horizontal. So that was confusing when you said the springs are horizontal.