2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

[Vasconia]

I think that is not entirely fair for Nico. Like last year in Moscow he showed that he can also come from the back and deal with problems.

But I do agree I'd place Rosberg on par with people like Webber, Coultard and Patrese, one notch below guys like Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton and Schumacher.

And actually they are the ideal ones to have as a second driver.

Well, lets speak in general terms, during they years I have seen that when things go wrong Nico USUALLY has much more problems to do his best. I think that everybody has the feeling that Lewis can start a race in the 18th position and win it, something which doesnt happen with Nico.

But yes, when he has the car and a good day he can do it as it happened in Russia.

[drunkf1fan]

Russia doesn't mean anything, every single other track he would have had to pit a second time and faced a lot more traffic coming through a second time. Russia being new, the deg being non existent and having to only do one pitstop even if it was early meant an odd race in which he had a car way way faster than 2/3rd's of the grid and as half the grid pitted they effectively got out of his way. Anyone could have ended up in the same position in that car in Russia.


Rosberg has a very fast car and hasn't done anything particularly impressive with it. Similar pace cars in any given race he has trouble getting past. Was it Hungary he got stuck behind a TR, Hamilton passed a few people got behind Rosberg, Rosberg decided to pit because he couldn't pass and Hamilton made an aggressive high quality pass on that same TR within a few laps and ended up finishing the race ahead of Rosberg as a result. He could have won that race as well if they'd pitted him again as they did with Rosberg. Rosberg caught Hamilton but again couldn't pass a car with ridiculously used tires. Hamilton was ahead of Rosberg so had they both pitted Hamilton would have track position and also caught those same guys with fresh tires at the end but been able to pass.

I don't dislike Rosberg but his race craft is poor. He consistently gets stuck behind cars others don't and consistently fails to pass even with a huge advantage. Tire advantage in Bahrain, Hungary(if it was there). Russia was just an odd race which allowed him to pass most of the faster cars when they pitted.

[ChrisDanger]

I'm not sure why anyone is attacking and/or defending Rosberg. But if you think Hamilton is a league above Vettel, then Rosberg is more than a league above Webber.

2010

Code: Select all

1. 		Sebastian Vettel     Red Bull Racing              256
2. 		Fernando Alonso      Scuderia Ferrari             252
3. 		Mark Webber          Red Bull Racing              242   (-14 or -5%)

2011

Code: Select all

1. 		Sebastian Vettel     Red Bull Racing              392
2. 		Jenson Button        Vodafone McLaren Mercedes    270
3. 		Mark Webber          Red Bull Racing              258   (-134 or -34%)

2012

Code: Select all

1. 		Sebastian Vettel     Red Bull Racing              281
2. 		Fernando Alonso      Scuderia Ferrari             278
3. 		Kimi Räikkönen       Lotus F1 Team                207
4. 		Lewis Hamilton       Vodafone McLaren Mercedes    190
5. 		Jenson Button        Vodafone McLaren Mercedes    188
6. 		Mark Webber          Red Bull Racing              179   (-102 or -36%)

2013

Code: Select all

1. 		Sebastian Vettel     Infiniti Red Bull Racing     397
2. 		Fernando Alonso      Scuderia Ferrari             242
3. 		Mark Webber          Infiniti Red Bull Racing     199   (-198 or -50%)

[djos]

I'm not sure why anyone is attacking and/or defending Rosberg. But if you think Hamilton is a league above Vettel, then Rosberg is more than a league above Webber.

How about showing Webber vs Rosberg when they were both at Williams?

[ChrisDanger]

I'm not sure why anyone is attacking and/or defending Rosberg. But if you think Hamilton is a league above Vettel, then Rosberg is more than a league above Webber.

How about showing Webber vs Rosberg when they were both at Williams?

Would that be Rosberg's rookie year and Webber's 5th in F1, 2nd at Williams?

[simieski]

Has it been confirmed whether or not Raikkonen's spin at the hairpin was due to an unexpected power surge?

De La Rosa said it may be because of the pit-stop configuration, wich is not disconnected until completing first lap after the stop. I don´t get the reason that configuration must be connected for the full lap, but that´s what he said and he should know a little bit about the stuff

I vaguely recall something in the regs about being able to change maps once per lap or something along those lines.

[giantfan10]

Only in F1technical..
If ROS is a hugely overrated driver flattered by a spaceship car, what does that tell us about HAM then?
Is he just your average driver who also lucked into the same spaceship?
Can't have it both ways I'm afraid guys..

Well ones a world champion, become a world champion before he got a spaceship car, and 4 out of 5 times beats the other guy in the spaceship car.

look Hamilton is a great driver along with Alonso and Vettel in this era of formula 1. Those 3 drivers are the cream of the crop currently.Put any of the 3 in the Mercedes and they would be leading the WDC. Hamilton is just doing what he is expected to do given the machinery he has, no fault of his but some people do go overboard heaping praises on him. just like they did for schuey,Vettel and Alonso when they dominated during their period of having superior machinery.

[Vasconia]

This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari and being tremendously lucky in the last race (+Singapur).

And the second WC was won having the best car BY FAR.

Now tell me the difference between what Vettel did and what Hamilton is doing. Pole position+straighforward victory.

Its time to stop the nonsense of Hamilton wins because is a super star and Vettel(or any other driver) won because of the car. I have been suffering this in Spain with Alonso. Stop the fanatism. All of them are great, we could disucss about who is the best one but its not about how great is one and who bad/lucky/fake are the others.

[ChrisF1]

Yes, because for every "Hamilton was lucky with Singapore" we get a "Hamilton was cheated out of Spa that year" etc.

Pointless discussion.

[Andres125sx]

This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari

IMHO, Ferrari was the best car in 2008. Otherwise I can´t cope with the idea of Massa fighting with Hamilton on similar machinery

[Andres125sx]

Has it been confirmed whether or not Raikkonen's spin at the hairpin was due to an unexpected power surge?

De La Rosa said it may be because of the pit-stop configuration, wich is not disconnected until completing first lap after the stop. I don´t get the reason that configuration must be connected for the full lap, but that´s what he said and he should know a little bit about the stuff

I vaguely recall something in the regs about being able to change maps once per lap or something along those lines.

That´d make sense, thanks

[PlatinumZealot]

This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari and being tremendously lucky in the last race (+Singapur).

And the second WC was won having the best car BY FAR.

Now tell me the difference between what Vettel did and what Hamilton is doing. Pole position+straighforward victory.

Its time to stop the nonsense of Hamilton wins because is a super star and Vettel(or any other driver) won because of the car. I have been suffering this in Spain with Alonso. Stop the fanatism. All of them are great, we could disucss about who is the best one but its not about how great is one and who bad/lucky/fake are the others.

After Kimi was utterly destroyed by Alonso and Vettel I don't think that the Mclaren was the fastest Car in 2007 nor 2008. (Kimi massa)... could have very well been four tenths faster on average... but anyway that is another topic.


And guys, Rosberg is faster than the qualifying gaps this year suggest. The gaps are only large because Rosberg knows he has a comfortable front row no matter what. In raw pace he can be as fast as Hamilton.

[ferkan]

This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari and being tremendously lucky in the last race (+Singapur).

And the second WC was won having the best car BY FAR.

Now tell me the difference between what Vettel did and what Hamilton is doing. Pole position+straighforward victory.

Its time to stop the nonsense of Hamilton wins because is a super star and Vettel(or any other driver) won because of the car. I have been suffering this in Spain with Alonso. Stop the fanatism. All of them are great, we could disucss about who is the best one but its not about how great is one and who bad/lucky/fake are the others.

After Kimi was utterly destroyed by Alonso and Vettel I don't think that the Mclaren was the fastest Car in 2007 nor 2008. (Kimi massa)... could have very well been four tenths faster on average... but anyway that is another topic.


And guys, Rosberg is faster than the qualifying gaps this year suggest. The gaps are only large because Rosberg knows he has a comfortable front row no matter what. In raw pace he can be as fast as Hamilton.

Oh so he doesnt really push for pole because he is happy with 2nd? He is .5 second slower on average then Lewis. Half a second. He was outqualified twice by driver driving far slower car. He is not that fast lets put that thing to bed.

[Edax]

This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari and being tremendously lucky in the last race (+Singapur).

And the second WC was won having the best car BY FAR.

Now tell me the difference between what Vettel did and what Hamilton is doing. Pole position+straighforward victory.
look Hamilton is a great driver along with Alonso and Vettel in this era of formula 1. Those 3 drivers are the cream of the crop currently.Put any of the 3 in the Mercedes and they would be leading the WDC. Hamilton is just doing what he is expected to do given the machinery he has, no fault of his but some people do go overboard heaping praises on him. just like they did for schuey,Vettel and Alonso when they dominated during their period of having superior machinery.

Who are the greatest football players? The greatest ones are the ones who can change the course of a game, by making a crucial goal or a crucial pass or a crucial save at the right moment. And do that with a relative high frequency.

I guess it is the same for the drivers. If you look at the championships of Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Shumi, and others you can identify moments where they made the difference and went beyond what is expected from the car.

For instance I think the ballsy pass of Hamilton on Massa in Monza last year was absolutely crucial for the course of the championship.
Same goes for the epic drive of Vettel in Abu Dhabi in 2012.
..etc

Every driver is dependent on the machinery and luck, some are just less dependent on it than others. And while I agree that it is impossible to say who is better (Shumi, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton) I think it is possible to say that all are in a special category.

[PlatinumZealot]

This discussion is a nonsense. Hamilton won his first WC having the best car alongside Ferrari and being tremendously lucky in the last race (+Singapur).

And the second WC was won having the best car BY FAR.

Now tell me the difference between what Vettel did and what Hamilton is doing. Pole position+straighforward victory.
look Hamilton is a great driver along with Alonso and Vettel in this era of formula 1. Those 3 drivers are the cream of the crop currently.Put any of the 3 in the Mercedes and they would be leading the WDC. Hamilton is just doing what he is expected to do given the machinery he has, no fault of his but some people do go overboard heaping praises on him. just like they did for schuey,Vettel and Alonso when they dominated during their period of having superior machinery.

Who are the greatest football players? The greatest ones are the ones who can change the course of a game, by making a crucial goal or a crucial pass or a crucial save at the right moment. And do that with a relative high frequency.

I guess it is the same for the drivers. If you look at the championships of Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton, Shumi, and others you can identify moments where they made the difference and went beyond what is expected from the car.

For instance I think the ballsy pass of Hamilton on Massa in Monza last year was absolutely crucial for the course of the championship.
Same goes for the epic drive of Vettel in Abu Dhabi in 2012.
..etc

Every driver is dependent on the machinery and luck, some are just less dependent on it than others. And while I agree that it is impossible to say who is better (Shumi, Vettel, Alonso, Hamilton) I think it is possible to say that all are in a special category.

Couldn't have said it better.

(p.s this is why I rate Perez He is not the fastest but he has a big X-factor in the races).