2015 Canadian Grand Prix - 5-7 June

[Jolle]

With all the cometary about the saving and tactical race from the pit-wall. The main reason is, I think, because of the circuit. Canada is easy on the tires (that's why they run the Supersofts ans Softs without problem while it's still heavy on brakes and fuel. Looks like they need even softer tires for Canada and Monaco so they come into play again.

[PlatinumZealot]

For some stupid reason Pirelli made the tyres harder this year when no one asked them to. I really liked the 2014 tyres. They were a good balance. As pointed out, what I would like even more are drivers on the limit. Once the drivers are on the limit the drama will follow and there would be no need for these mozzarella tyres. Give me unlimited fuel flow, unlimited fuel and tyres you can push on. So simple to do. Limit the engines if you'd like.

Anyway, on the Canada GP itself.. yeah, it was sorely disappointed when everyone had to start pussy footing around because the fuel was about to run out. What sort of rubbish is that FIA?!!

[Andres125sx]

Sorry but I disagree, you should add some drivers too but they also think that rules are nowadays too complicated and that they cant drive at 100%.

The Swiss cheese tires are because of the fans who wanted more of a show, DRS is because of the fans who wanted more passing.

No, they are because FIA cant/don´t want to solve the real problem (aero) that makes overtaking too dificult, and they´re doing all sort of stupid things to patch it, like swiss cheese tires or DRS. Nobody asked for crappy tires or DRS

This is like if McLaren-Honda, to solve their lack of power, would decide to remove both wings so they´re faster on the straights.... obviously they will be faster on the straights, but lap times will be a joke because they didn´t solve the real problem. That´s what FIA is doing with aero, ignoring the real problem and trying to make up the numbers

Its that complicated to create fast cars without so much downforce to allow the overtakings???

teams will find a way to get the downforce back, and to have a development war you need to shut up the people who constantly complain about cost.

No, teams can´t break the rules, they´ll find ways to improve downforce but if you ban something, it´s banned. Blown diffusers, ground effect, active aero, fan cars, wing cars..... the list of banned technologies or idea affecting aero is very long.

If someone would do a new list wich takes into account aero turbulence so they allow some banned techonolgies wich produce downforce without turbulence, and reduce downforce that generate turbulence (wings mainly), the show would improve by a good factor

[dans79]

No, teams can´t break the rules, they´ll find ways to improve downforce but if you ban something, it´s banned. Blown diffusers, ground effect, active aero, fan cars, wing cars..... the list of banned technologies or idea affecting aero is very long.

If someone would do a new list wich takes into account aero turbulence so they allow some banned techonolgies wich produce downforce without turbulence, and reduce downforce that generate turbulence (wings mainly), the show would improve by a good factor

.

I didn't say they would cheat, I said they would find a way to get it back. F1 is a design formula, so some team will always find a way. The entire point is to out design/develop the opposition.

[mrluke]

It's not about aero that makes turbulence, it's about avoiding aero that is sensitive to turbulence.

[Jordan44]

For some stupid reason Pirelli made the tyres harder this year when no one asked them to. I really liked the 2014 tyres. They were a good balance. As pointed out, what I would like even more are drivers on the limit. Once the drivers are on the limit the drama will follow and there would be no need for these mozzarella tyres. Give me unlimited fuel flow, unlimited fuel and tyres you can push on. So simple to do. Limit the engines if you'd like.

Anyway, on the Canada GP itself.. yeah, it was sorely disappointed when everyone had to start pussy footing around because the fuel was about to run out. What sort of rubbish is that FIA?!!

Because they were under the illusion that even Mercedes would improve more than a second and others would improve about 2-3 seconds so they needed to improve the tyres. Didn't happen.

[Andres125sx]

No, teams can´t break the rules, they´ll find ways to improve downforce but if you ban something, it´s banned. Blown diffusers, ground effect, active aero, fan cars, wing cars..... the list of banned technologies or idea affecting aero is very long.

If someone would do a new list wich takes into account aero turbulence so they allow some banned techonolgies wich produce downforce without turbulence, and reduce downforce that generate turbulence (wings mainly), the show would improve by a good factor

.

I didn't say they would cheat, I said they would find a way to get it back. F1 is a design formula, so some team will always find a way. The entire point is to out design/develop the opposition.

Of course, they always find a way, but rules keep downforce within a limit. Imagine if they never banned ground effect, fan cars, active aero, EBD and wings could be whatever size... If FIA limited all these aspects, they could do the same with some others to ease overtaking

[Andres125sx]

It's not about aero that makes turbulence, it's about avoiding aero that is sensitive to turbulence.

If that´s the solution to make posible keeping close to the car in front then agree

[dans79]

Of course, they always find a way, but rules keep downforce within a limit. Imagine if they never banned ground effect, fan cars, active aero, EBD and wings could be whatever size... If FIA limited all these aspects, they could do the same with some others to ease overtaking

Banning everything. Is what caused all the sensitive expensive aero we have now.

[Andres125sx]

Of course, they always find a way, but rules keep downforce within a limit. Imagine if they never banned ground effect, fan cars, active aero, EBD and wings could be whatever size... If FIA limited all these aspects, they could do the same with some others to ease overtaking

Banning everything. Is what caused all the sensitive expensive aero we have now.

Do you think if they'd have more fields to invest and develop it will be cheaper?

[dans79]

Do you think if they'd have more fields to invest and develop it will be cheaper?

I do.

[Moose]

Do you think if they'd have more fields to invest and develop it will be cheaper?

I do.

What makes you think that?

As far as I'm concerned, it's very clear that it would increase the delta that money would make. The top teams have a fixed amount of cash to spend, and will spend it. If they have lots of places to develop, they will develop in all of those places, and grab the easy pickings from them. Constraining them to a few specific places to develop will cause them to go deep, and get into diminishing returns. The result is that by giving more areas of development you shift everyone closer to zero on a logarithmic curve, and as a result cause an increased gap between someone with lots of cash and someone with little cash.

[Juzh]

Of course, they always find a way, but rules keep downforce within a limit. Imagine if they never banned ground effect, fan cars, active aero, EBD and wings could be whatever size... If FIA limited all these aspects, they could do the same with some others to ease overtaking

Banning everything. Is what caused all the sensitive expensive aero we have now.

2010 DDDs didn't exactly prove much better, did they?

[Andres125sx]

Do you think if they'd have more fields to invest and develop it will be cheaper?

I do.

Moose explained it perfectly, but I wonder how can you think with more fields it would be cheaper.....

Teams would save part of his money because they´d be lazy to start a new development line?

[mrluke]

You can't change the amount of money the top teams spend.

They have their budget and they will spend every penny of it.

With very tight rules you have to spend millions to gain fractions of a second. With more open rules it is possible to gain a significant chunk of time without having to spend as much.

Open rules could make the lower teams more competitive for the money they spend, as it would reward ideas rather than finances. But its going to have no impact at all on the higher teams budgets.