2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

[SiLo]

you totally forgot 2013?
ferrari 354
mclaren 122.......you see the difficult times mclaren as been through + hasn't won constructors since 1998!!!! 2007 failures but still mclaren has the most sporting character of them all they are very gentle when they suck and accept their mistake.......under the whining horner and SCUDERIA "VETO" FERRARI

who is this guy?

[Andres125sx]

you totally forgot 2013?
ferrari 354
mclaren 122.......you see the difficult times mclaren as been through + hasn't won constructors since 1998!!!! 2007 failures but still mclaren has the most sporting character of them all they are very gentle when they suck and accept their mistake.......under the whining horner and SCUDERIA "VETO" FERRARI

I´ll repeat it.... 4th or 5th does change something? Because McLaren was 5th in that catastrophic season you say, and Ferrari has been 4th the next one. Not a big difference or something that completely change their politics as you´re trying to say

If you like McLaren more than Ferrari or Red Bull that´s fine, but you don´t need to invent absurd reasons to support your likings

And this is the Austrian GP thread btw, we should stop this OT

[f1316]

Maybe we can segue this into something about the race...

Mclaren bringing a very big upgrade package from the chassis side inc a new nose, and I've read somewhere that they're predicting a double points finish. This seems very unlikely to me, given the power dependent nature of the track, but what do we think?

If they could achieve that with this engine on that track, I think it would speak very well for their chassis. I personally do not believe Andrew Benson's claim (on Twitter) that analysis of quali times in Canada showed mclaren chassis is on par with the Ferrari (scarbs also mentioned on sky that he doesn't think the mclaren chassis is one of the best in the field) but if they do achieve this result it would bode very well for less power dependent tracks - and maybe mean their upgraded chassis really is that good.

[Andres125sx]

Hopefully....

The austrian upgrade is almost a complete aero package, we´ll see if it works

[Emmcee]

Maybe we can segue this into something about the race...

Mclaren bringing a very big upgrade package from the chassis side inc a new nose, and I've read somewhere that they're predicting a double points finish. This seems very unlikely to me, given the power dependent nature of the track, but what do we think?

If they could achieve that with this engine on that track, I think it would speak very well for their chassis. I personally do not believe Andrew Benson's claim (on Twitter) that analysis of quali times in Canada showed mclaren chassis is on par with the Ferrari (scarbs also mentioned on sky that he doesn't think the mclaren chassis is one of the best in the field) but if they do achieve this result it would bode very well for less power dependent tracks - and maybe mean their upgraded chassis really is that good.

I don't think they have an issue with the chassis what so ever, it's all down purely to the pu. What do you expect with all these testing restrictions in place, it's not possible to build a competitive unit right away. In all honesty with the history Honda have with building turbo f1 engines, if they can't get it right, right away how would any one else fair?

[SectorOne]

What do you expect with all these testing restrictions in place, it's not possible to build a competitive unit right away.

Yes it is, proven by Mercedes.
And if you get it slightly wrong first year, Ferrari proved you can fix it for the next.

This is of course assuming you know what you are doing. Renault can barely make an engine that works let alone have it be competitive.
Give Honda at least a full year since they got it a bit wrong.

[Emmcee]

What do you expect with all these testing restrictions in place, it's not possible to build a competitive unit right away.

Yes it is, proven by Mercedes.
And if you get it slightly wrong first year, Ferrari proved you can fix it for the next.

This is of course assuming you know what you are doing. Renault can barely make an engine that works let alone have it be competitive.
Give Honda at least a full year since they got it a bit wrong.

That's actually incorrect, well the Mercedes part anyway. Soon as these new regs for the turbo era was released and I think it was in 2013, Mercedes got straight to work on the turbo engine, so it had two or more years development ahead of the other manufacturers and good on them for taking imediate reaction. The outcome though is races we have now when it's only a two car race. Ferrari in the other hand have done well to close the gap and have made a steady improvement.

[zioture]

[GPR-A duplicate2]

What do you expect with all these testing restrictions in place, it's not possible to build a competitive unit right away.

Yes it is, proven by Mercedes.
And if you get it slightly wrong first year, Ferrari proved you can fix it for the next.

This is of course assuming you know what you are doing. Renault can barely make an engine that works let alone have it be competitive.
Give Honda at least a full year since they got it a bit wrong.

That's actually incorrect, well the Mercedes part anyway. Soon as these new regs for the turbo era was released and I think it was in 2013, Mercedes got straight to work on the turbo engine, so it had two or more years development ahead of the other manufacturers and good on them for taking imediate reaction. The outcome though is races we have now when it's only a two car race. Ferrari in the other hand have done well to close the gap and have made a steady improvement.

What???? The F1 announced 1.6 Litre Turbo Engines for 2014, in 2010 itself. The timeline to start work on turbo engines were not different for different manufacturers. Should the world show sympathy for other manufacturers if they didn't paid the required attention to develop the new engines, the way Mercedes did? The fact is, everyone compromised. Mercedes compromised 2010-13, in the anticipation of winning the titles from 2014, they focussed, invested, worked hard and are reaping the rewards. On the other hand, Ferrari and Renault were fighting for titles in the same period and compromised on the work for 2014. The fact is, Mercedes brought out a PU that is class of the field in the same available time like for those of Ferrari and Renault, STRAIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. So, it is possible to do that. Others didn't do it, shame on them.

[iotar__]

What do you expect with all these testing restrictions in place, it's not possible to build a competitive unit right away.

Yes it is, proven by Mercedes.
And if you get it slightly wrong first year, Ferrari proved you can fix it for the next.
This is of course assuming you know what you are doing. Renault can barely make an engine that works let alone have it be competitive. Give Honda at least a full year since they got it a bit wrong.

You named two full manufacturers that have no competition, Ferrari needed remarkable change of rules at purely political level to catch up so maybe it's not quite possible for anyone but two teams? Following that logic it was much more possible to create flexing wings (banned), better FRIC (banned) or use blown diffusor better (banned). Changes that BTW made cars slower, the aspect so many people suddenly care about but wasn't a problem at the time which makes me think it's about agendas not pureness.

Honda is late, disadvantaged by the rules, got it all wrong at the moment not "a bit" and I think is in favour of removing restrictions. Not exactly the success story example for current engine rules. Speaking of engines my conspiracy theory is not completely a theory: http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/06/10/ ... e-upgrade/ "It has emerged that Force India had to do without Mercedes’ latest power unit upgrade introduced for Canada." What about previous races? Are engines assigned randomly since they are all the same? No, but let's not talk about it [-o< .

[Samraj_official]

hondas engine concept is very sound and good,just give them some time....the integration needs some configuration

[mrluke]

hondas engine concept is very sound and good,just give them some time....the integration needs some configuration

Citation needed.

[turbof1]

Honda themselves ?

I always was of the opinion that Honda would need this year to learn rather then to compete. It's like Samraj says, give them some time.

@iotar: Mercedes are probably holding back PU allocations back altogether, rather then just the updates. My opinion on the matter is that they actually have not yet paid for the next allocation. However, Mercedes the customer teams can't be disadvantaged concerning updates.

EDiT: Should have readed the article first, I'm an idiot. It's of course true that time plays a role as well. Mercedes will always priotirize the works team when only a select few parts can be made in time. However, that's not about willingly disadvantage one team. In Austria FI will have the updates too.

[Jef Patat]

However, Mercedes the customer teams can't be disadvantaged concerning updates.

Wasn't that and the mappings the reason MCL chose for its own supplier?

Oh boy, Austrian GP relevance is completely gone now

[turbof1]

However, Mercedes the customer teams can't be disadvantaged concerning updates.

Wasn't that and the mappings the reason MCL chose for its own supplier?

Oh boy, Austrian GP relevance is completely gone now

They still got all of the hardware updates. software and mappings essentially are car specific.

True, Mercedes delivered the bare minimum they would needed to, but Mclaren did receive all of the reliability upgrades.

Dialing that back to the Austrian Grand Prix, present time: Force India will get those hardware upgrades too. Software? I'll refer to Maurizio "no money, no honey" Arivabene how that works.