2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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iotar__
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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Andres125sx wrote:
iotar__ wrote:About Raikkonen's crash:
"No driver was at fault." Who was is then, what caused the car moving? Was it a divine intervention, ghosts, another unexplained case?
Do you understand the concept of race incident?

This is racing, you can´t punish a driver because of losing control when he´s going to the limit. No driver at fault does not mean there was no mistakes, but there was no unsafe or imprudent behaviour.
1.Do you understand the concept of causing a collision by one driver because that's what it was?

2. Of course you can punish a driver for losing control, they do it all the time. Do you really want me to give you 20 examples of losing control that were punished with penalties? Grosjean Spa 2012, is it good enough for you with a overreacted, ridiculous race ban?

Do you think they give penalties for keeping control? On the contrary it's the best reason to punish a driver, this old argument recycled when needed "let them race" can be applied to any situation or not applied therefore it's worthless. The answer is also always simple: that was not racing. What other circumstances were there to absolve a driver from guilt? Other cars, rain, technical failure? No. Attempting something like overtake in some clean but risky manner? No. As one sided causing a collision as it gets and they pretend it was the car driving itself. Based on what exactly? Just because it looks weird adn they can't find the better camera? How was that safe?

That wasn't some tricky corner and taking out your competition is good enough reason to penalise on top of safety. What do you think Bianchi was doing when they closed his case with "drove to fast". Was he also racing? Here it's: "no one at fault", how is that possible #-o ?

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Hail22
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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super slow motion of Rai / Alonso incident:



Amazing how Alonso' T-bar cameras video hasn't been shown yet....
If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari.

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max_speed
max_speed
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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Spoutnik wrote:Raikkonen deserve a penalty he never know how to put the throttle smoothly since the V6T-H.
why penalize a driver whose career is about to end anyway. i guess days are over for him , ferrari won't renew his contract for sure unless they want to exhibit how good vettel is against his team mate.

zeph
zeph
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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It would be fascinating to see how Danny Rick would fare next to Vettel in a Ferrari...

....but I'm pretty sure Vettel has the power to veto that.

this is silly seb
this is silly seb
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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max_speed wrote:
Spoutnik wrote:Raikkonen deserve a penalty he never know how to put the throttle smoothly since the V6T-H.
why penalize a driver whose career is about to end anyway. i guess days are over for him , ferrari won't renew his contract for sure unless they want to exhibit how good vettel is against his team mate.
Dan must be a shoe in for Kimi's seat..massive talent...proven race winner in a un competitive car..beaten Seb hands down..Italian name...marketable personality

Moose
Moose
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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this is silly seb wrote:
max_speed wrote:
Spoutnik wrote:Raikkonen deserve a penalty he never know how to put the throttle smoothly since the V6T-H.
why penalize a driver whose career is about to end anyway. i guess days are over for him , ferrari won't renew his contract for sure unless they want to exhibit how good vettel is against his team mate.
Dan must be a shoe in for Kimi's seat..massive talent...proven race winner in a un competitive car..beaten Seb hands down..Italian name...marketable personality
Ah, I see... We're not talking about it in the 2014 thread. As I said there... *cough* Bottas *cough*.

He's been consistent and Fast. Ricciardo lately has been getting beaten by his team mate. Not that ofc Bottas wasn't beaten today.

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SectorOne
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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Seems Hamilton will not test in Austria? Pretty stupid if you ask me

Mercedes
Tuesday: Nico Rosberg; Wednesday: Pascal Wehrlein

Ferrari
Tuesday: Antonio Fuoco; Wednesday: Esteban Gutierrez

Red Bull
Tuesday: Daniel Ricciardo; Wednesday: Pierre Gasly

Williams
Tuesday: Susie Wolff; Wednesday: Valtteri Bottas

McLaren
Tuesday: Fernando Alonso Wednesday: Stoffel Vandoorne

Lotus
Tuesday: Romain Grosjean; Wednesday: Jolyon Palmer

Force India
Tuesday: Pascal Wehrlein; Wednesday: Esteban Ocon

Toro Rosso
Tuesday: Max Verstappen; Wednesday: TBC

Sauber
Tuesday: Raffaele Marciello; Wednesday: Felipe Nasr

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119612
"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of sh*t"

evered7
evered7
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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Anyone have an idea how much was the fuel usage for the top5/10 at the end of the race? I know it was grabbed off a screenshot for Canada but I am hoping that data would be available for this race as well. Fingers crossed :)

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Vasconia
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Location: Basque Country

Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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SectorOne wrote:Seems Hamilton will not test in Austria? Pretty stupid if you ask me

Mercedes
Tuesday: Nico Rosberg; Wednesday: Pascal Wehrlein

Ferrari
Tuesday: Antonio Fuoco; Wednesday: Esteban Gutierrez

Red Bull
Tuesday: Daniel Ricciardo; Wednesday: Pierre Gasly

Williams
Tuesday: Susie Wolff; Wednesday: Valtteri Bottas

McLaren
Tuesday: Fernando Alonso Wednesday: Stoffel Vandoorne

Lotus
Tuesday: Romain Grosjean; Wednesday: Jolyon Palmer

Force India
Tuesday: Pascal Wehrlein; Wednesday: Esteban Ocon

Toro Rosso
Tuesday: Max Verstappen; Wednesday: TBC

Sauber
Tuesday: Raffaele Marciello; Wednesday: Felipe Nasr

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/119612
If it rains, no so much.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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iHpled wrote:
andreag wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:This is racing, you can´t punish a driver because of losing control when he´s going to the limit. No driver at fault does not mean there was no mistakes, but there was no unsafe or imprudent behaviour.
Well, at least Charlie Whiting can. He already did it to Alonso in Monaco for a similar incident but with much smaller consequences.
Charlie hates racing :| , hence the penalty in Monaco for Alonso. Which was for me a clear racing incident.
Yeah, it was ANOTHER stupid penalty.

Yesterday´s accident was clearly a race incident, but Kimi must think seriously why he has so many problems controlling the car in those situations.

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Vasconia
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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henra wrote:
iotar__ wrote:Vettel can't pass to save his life (this time Massa)
Although in General overtaking indeed doesn't appear to be his strength in this particular case it is not really a surprise. He was 2-3 tenth faster max, The Williams seemed to have more grunt. In F1 it is difficult to overtake someone who is 2s slower per lap if the defending car has sufficient straightline Speed/acceleration. Even Lewis who is usually quite good at overtaking had to experience this when he wasn't able to overtake Seb who was significantly slower over a lap yet had good top speed + traction earlier this season.
Williams is usually very,very fast on the straights so it was really difficult to overtake it. I cant blame Sebastian in this case.
And I have seen so good overtakes by him, why persits this myth? I remember reading the same sh*t when he achieved dominant victories with RB. Then in 2012 we saw that he had no problems to overtake.

Great race by Nico, a wonderful first lap overtaking Lewis and with a great defensive moves. His pace has been great and this is the way to beat Hamilton and give us some excitement for the rest of the season! =D>

Maldonado proving again that he is a very talented guy, what an overtake!! he has been very unlucky during this season so I am very happy. If the car works he is showing that at least this season, is showing some maturity in his driving.

Honda...what the hell happened with you? and the next race is Silverstone... :|

f1316
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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this is silly seb wrote:
max_speed wrote:
Spoutnik wrote:Raikkonen deserve a penalty he never know how to put the throttle smoothly since the V6T-H.
why penalize a driver whose career is about to end anyway. i guess days are over for him , ferrari won't renew his contract for sure unless they want to exhibit how good vettel is against his team mate.
Dan must be a shoe in for Kimi's seat..massive talent...proven race winner in a un competitive car..beaten Seb hands down..Italian name...marketable personality
You think he's not locked in at Red Bull ? Also, not sure Seb would like it (even though, if he is that good, he should welcome the chance to beat him and set the record straight).

I'd like to see Hulkenburg get a shot. I think he's both fast and consistent, plus races well. In saying that, I think Perez (a Ferrari academy guy) is also very fast; just a bit less consistent and a more combustible personality.

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Andres125sx
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Location: Madrid, Spain

Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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iotar__ wrote:
Andres125sx wrote:
iotar__ wrote:About Raikkonen's crash:
"No driver was at fault." Who was is then, what caused the car moving? Was it a divine intervention, ghosts, another unexplained case?
Do you understand the concept of race incident?

This is racing, you can´t punish a driver because of losing control when he´s going to the limit. No driver at fault does not mean there was no mistakes, but there was no unsafe or imprudent behaviour.
1.Do you understand the concept of causing a collision by one driver because that's what it was?
Thanks for replying

So no, you don´t understand the concept of race incident. Don´t worry, I´ll explain

Race incident is considered when two drivers collide, but nobody did anything so wrong to deserve a penalty. You´re assuming if there´s a collision someone have to be punished, but that´s false, there are race incidents

Punishments usually are imposed because the driver did something too risky, or he took a bad decision wich caused a harm to a driver who did nothing wrong. In Monaco CW considered Alonso did the second because there was no space so that was a bad decision, and he pushed the other driver to the barriers so he was harmed by Alonso´s decision, I disagree but can understand his point of view.

OTOH Kimi yesterday only was accelerating getting out of a corner, so that can´t be considered any of the two, even if he lost control and caused a collision

Or you think accelerating getting out of a corner is a bad decision or too risky? Obviously no, so that´s a race incident
Last edited by Andres125sx on 22 Jun 2015, 09:58, edited 1 time in total.

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Andres125sx
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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Moose wrote: Ah, I see... We're not talking about it in the 2014 thread. As I said there... *cough* Bottas *cough*.

He's been consistent and Fast. Ricciardo lately has been getting beaten by his team mate. Not that ofc Bottas wasn't beaten today.
This again?

WDC:
7th DANIEL RICCIARDO 36 points
8th DANIIL KVYAT points 19

So Ricciardo has almost 90% more points than Kvyat



Oh sorry, you said lately....

Austria 2015 standings:

10th DANIEL RICCIARDO 1 point
11th FELIPE NASR 0
12th DANIIL KVYAT 0 points


:roll:

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mertol
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Re: 2015 Austrian Grand Prix - 19-21 June

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max_speed wrote:
Spoutnik wrote:Raikkonen deserve a penalty he never know how to put the throttle smoothly since the V6T-H.
why penalize a driver whose career is about to end anyway. i guess days are over for him , ferrari won't renew his contract for sure unless they want to exhibit how good vettel is against his team mate.
It's like shooting your old dog - it's easier