Williams FW38 Mercedes Speculation Thread

[Stalker1]

I have been thinking about the Williams car design philosophy during the last couple of seasons and after discussing it with a guy from finance sector it makes sense to me now. Williams has been very conservative with their aero development and why they shouldnt be? They have a chassis with obvious flaws but also with obvious strengths, they understand the chassis and can set-up it well on most circuits. Coupled with Mercedes engine and two decent but not top-tier drivers, it has been enough for two consecutive third place finishes in the Constructors championship.

Taking the next step up- establishing themselves as a permanent podium and victory contender is not going to be easy. I do not know who is responsible for chassis and aero development in Williams and how capable they actually are, but I think they need a substantial raise in development budget during on and off season. Beside that, maybe they need to hire someone like Prodromou who would bring new ideas and new approach to the chassis design. Someone, who has experience, necessary knowledge and capability to lead development under limited budget . Without the increase in budget, it is not going to happen.

From the managerial and financical point of view, Williams management have been doing amasing job during the last three seasons, I think. Securing Mercedes engines, designing the chassis around it, choosing the evolution way for last season to save up funds and manpower for this seasons car. We will see, how it all pays of this season. They know they have to take risks and they have taken them.

[Raleigh]

Williams aero is actually quite good, it's been their main strength (alongside driver line-up and engines) over the last two years. Certainly better than any other Mercedes customer team in that period.

Going from moderate downforce/low drag to high downforce/moderate drag will require a change of design approach, but if Williams can successfully produce a car with respectable downforce and very low drag then there is no reason to believe they can't do high downforce with average drag.

[FoxHound]

Their "slippery" aero approach may work on suitable tracks, but overall efficiency is not what Williams want it to be. This is outlined in the 2015 cars performance on aero dependant tracks.

They need to find the happy medium to mount a consistent challenge rather than focusing the overall concept on high speed tracks.

[Raleigh]

Again, Williams was fairly competitive on aero tracks like Spain. The car has decent downforce and does well in high speed corners.

Where they suffered was a lack of traction, Monaco exposed this most harshly, as did wet weather. Low speed corners and mechanical grip have been a persistent weakness of Williams in both 2014/2015 and this is one of the biggest areas the team needs to improve going forward.

The changes to aero philosophy prioritizing downforce over low drag will help the wet weather performance at least and also bring much needed tire life, this was the other point where Williams suffered last year compared to Mercedes/Ferrari with shorter stint lengths.

[bill shoe]

Again, Williams was fairly competitive on aero tracks like Spain. The car has decent downforce and does well in high speed corners.

Where they suffered was a lack of traction, Monaco exposed this most harshly, as did wet weather. Low speed corners and mechanical grip have been a persistent weakness of Williams in both 2014/2015 and this is one of the biggest areas the team needs to improve going forward.

Maybe Williams had good downforce on classic smooth Euro tracks like Spain, but they were not as good as the competition at maintaining consistent downforce over the larger range of ride heights and suspension movement that are needed for tracks like Monoco. Perhaps too simplistic to think of Williams aero goals in terms of just downforce vs drag. Williams may be chasing a wider usable range of the same downforce levels they previously had. Success there would open up more options for traction/chassis setup.

[Raleigh]

That could well be the case, I remember Rob Smedley (?) at the British GP last year talking about how the difference in ride height between wet tires with their slightly greater diameter than slicks was affecting downforce.

[Stalker1]

That could well be the case, I remember Rob Smedley (?) at the British GP last year talking about how the difference in ride height between wet tires with their slightly greater diameter than slicks was affecting downforce.

Yeah, that was Rob Smedley after the race commenting on the struggle of Williams cars aganist Mercedes and Ferrari. More than that, he also mentioned that as Williams has opted for evolution, developing the same basic chassis design further and further during the last couple of seasons, all the problems with changing ride height, the cars instability during braking etc. can be reduced, but not masked entirely.

The pursuit of wide usable downforce range was the main target of McClaren too during the season of 2013 and 2014. They arguably had the best car in the grid at the end of the 2012 season, but felt they have extracted the maximum performance out of it. So, they opted for totally new design, which they never throughly understood. Thats way I am actually happy with Williams choices so far- work with what you have and understand and develop it as you can and understand.

[Stalker1]

Maybe Williams had good downforce on classic smooth Euro tracks like Spain, but they were not as good as the competition at maintaining consistent downforce over the larger range of ride heights and suspension movement that are needed for tracks like Monoco. Perhaps too simplistic to think of Williams aero goals in terms of just downforce vs drag. Williams may be chasing a wider usable range of the same downforce levels they previously had. Success there would open up more options for traction/chassis setup.

A good point, I think. I agree with your opinion.

[renatope]

In my opinion, Williams has reached a point where it will be very difficult for them to move forward and they will probably have to worry more with what is in their mirrors than with what is in front of them.
Their last cars have been pretty good, however, they seem to have some key weak points while not having any substancial strenghts compared to others ( except maybe the FW36 great straigh line performance).
The balance between downforce and drag - efficiency - sure will be important for the FW38 but I think they should focus on getting the most downforce they can, and then dealing with it when it comes to low downforce circuits, with solutions like slimmer rear wings such as redbull's or the Mercedes' spoon rear wing.
Aero aside, it is no secret that they still have a large road ahead in terms of overall balance and mechanical grip in the low speed stuff. Also it seems that their tyre management can also get better in order to match those of the two teams ahead of them.
Well, I hope Williams surprises us with an awesome car and they're right to focus on getting victories, however, on a more realistic approach, I think they will be in a very good place if they finish third again. They have to make the most out of this situation because McLaren and Red Bull's engine crisis won't last forever.

[Stalker1]

I am thinking here about the issue with rear-downforce or the lack of it. What are your options if you want to improve the rear-downforce? Do you have to improve the air flow over the car and over the rear wing or the key is actually the bottom of the car?

[ME4ME]

Not sure ultimate rear downforce is an issue though. As said before, Williams did pretty OK on many high-speed downforce dependent tracks (Silverstone pre-rain etc). There do seem to be a couple of other related issues. Like flow separation when running without the monkey-seat. Also the suspension seems to be an issue, with below average traction (low speed corners), and mechanical suspension failures (US GP). Also Smedley mentioned they didn't cope very well with X-Wet tires (Silverstone) which raises the car a few millimeters, whereas other teams do not seem to struggle.

I think strengthening the suspension and improve ride height control goes a long way of fixing the majority of their issues. But of course aero-work always continues, so they'll probably improve on all fronts over the winter.

[LookBackTime]

I am thinking here about the issue with rear-downforce or the lack of it. What are your options if you want to improve the rear-downforce? Do you have to improve the air flow over the car and over the rear wing or the key is actually the bottom of the car?

We already got a hint from Williams: more air (clean air, not turbulent one) over diffuser. The solution should be close to what Mercedes or Red Bull are doing!

[scarbs]

Crash tests passed

[LookBackTime]

Crash tests passed

Good news! Thanks!

[rich1701]

I Believe Rob Smedley made a comment a couple of months ago basically stating the 38 will look very different from the 37.

Smedley: “The end of the season has been slightly lacklustre compared to last year but last year we developed the car right up until the very last moment,” he said. “This year, having been more comfortable and consolidated in third, our thoughts switched to 2016 and 2017.

“The 2016 car we have in the wind tunnel and the 2015 car is significantly different, so there's nothing we could do from an aerodynamic point of view. Other parts of R&D and the mechanical design we are trialling things all the time.

“We think that everything we are seeing at the minute is good. We're hitting targets. We are always looking, not just at numbers, but in other areas aerodynamic development as well. Other significant areas of development so it's all ongoing, it's a process of getting us back towards the front. At the moment we are reasonably happy with what we are seeing.”

This indicates a new aero philosophy. They are not going to find the time needed over the winter with the low drag approach, fundamentally you need more downforce to be consistently competitive, but obviously in a balanced, accessible way.