Daniel Ricciardo's contract

[FrukostScones]

That doesn´t mean he didn´t do his best in that season

LOL

[Phil]

I can. He's good but he's not great. Before you wheel out the tired argument that he beat Vettel, remember that Vettel probably had an exit clause if he was lower than 5th or 6th. He wanted to go to Ferrari, the Renault weren't in the same league as Ferrari and Mercedes so while he didn't exactly throw the races he probably could of finished ahead of Ricciardo. But in doing so couldn't active the exit clause.

That's a lot of selective memory at play here IMO. To understand and quantify Vettels performance of 2014, one needs to consider his options. He wasn't going to go to Mercedes. Half-way through 2014, Ferrari didnt have an opening either. They still had Alonso under contract, who has a bit of an image of being rather picky about team-mates after what happened in 2007 at McLaren (and understandably so). When you perform as well as he does, I'm sure his input carries weight. He was quite positive on Massa when the team was quantifying if to replace him or not, and later Kimi too, despite both severely underperforming at the time. Why is this important? Because I pretty much feel that during the first 3rd of 2014, Ferrari wasn't available for another driver of Vettels caliber yet, not with Alonso still being their main driver, the sponsorship with Santander probably also complex. Alonso's unhappiness, the lack of results and improvement at Ferrari and then the later management change at Ferrari all led to the situation that Alonso was looking for an out (or entertaining the idea and possible alternatives), while Vettel was pursued as a driver - later that season. At that point, or close to it, the exit-clause also played a decisive role. But before that? Nah - Vettel had no real reason or motivation to perform as he did.

Sure, it's pretty clear Vettel was always very fond of Ferrari. But performing too bad at RedBull while your younger, new team-mate is outperforming you isn't exactly the best way to sell yourself to the 'dream-team of F1'. Luckily for Vettel, it all turned out rather well despite all that. Alonso was out and Ferrari needed/wanted a driver of similar caliber, not too young, but experienced and the 4 times world-champion was a very logical choice. But I have my doubts that Vettel had any reason to perform as he did on purpose or because he all saw it forming in his mind what was going to happen months ahead at a different team.

Perhaps 2014 didn't show Vettel in the most fair light. He didn't like the car, nor was he performing well in it, and then there were heaps of reliability issues that plagued him. But that shouldn't take away the extraordinary performance of Ricciardo who not only outqualified him, but also times when Ricciardo actually overtook Vettel on track in stunning, almost unbelievable fashion. Vettel also started to perform better as the season progressed, so it wasn't as if he wasn't trying.

I definitely rate Ricciardo very highly and IMO any team would be a fool not to take him, assuming they have a free seat available. If Ferrari doesn't, I could definitely see Mercedes going for him. He also seems to be quite compatible as a team-mate: Easy going, friendly, positive. All good qualities that also work with in well established competitive teams where there is already a world-champion under contract. Not sure how Vettel really feels about the prospect of being teamed-up with Ricciardo again, but I'm not sure Hamilton would mind. It's not as if he is having an easy time with Rosberg as his team-mate.

[Andres125sx]

Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square

[FrukostScones]

I can. He's good but he's not great. Before you wheel out the tired argument that he beat Vettel, remember that Vettel probably had an exit clause if he was lower than 5th or 6th. He wanted to go to Ferrari, the Renault weren't in the same league as Ferrari and Mercedes so while he didn't exactly throw the races he probably could of finished ahead of Ricciardo. But in doing so couldn't active the exit clause.

That's a lot of selective memory at play here IMO. To understand and quantify Vettels performance of 2014, one needs to consider his options. He wasn't going to go to Mercedes. Half-way through 2014, Ferrari didnt have an opening either. They still had Alonso under contract, who has a bit of an image of being rather picky about team-mates after what happened in 2007 at McLaren (and understandably so). When you perform as well as he does, I'm sure his input carries weight. He was quite positive on Massa when the team was quantifying if to replace him or not, and later Kimi too, despite both severely underperforming at the time. Why is this important? Because I pretty much feel that during the first 3rd of 2014, Ferrari wasn't available for another driver of Vettels caliber yet, not with Alonso still being their main driver, the sponsorship with Santander probably also complex. Alonso's unhappiness, the lack of results and improvement at Ferrari and then the later management change at Ferrari all led to the situation that Alonso was looking for an out (or entertaining the idea and possible alternatives), while Vettel was pursued as a driver - later that season. At that point, or close to it, the exit-clause also played a decisive role. But before that? Nah - Vettel had no real reason or motivation to perform as he did.

Sure, it's pretty clear Vettel was always very fond of Ferrari. But performing too bad at RedBull while your younger, new team-mate is outperforming you isn't exactly the best way to sell yourself to the 'dream-team of F1'. Luckily for Vettel, it all turned out rather well despite all that. Alonso was out and Ferrari needed/wanted a driver of similar caliber, not too young, but experienced and the 4 times world-champion was a very logical choice. But I have my doubts that Vettel had any reason to perform as he did on purpose or because he all saw it forming in his mind what was going to happen months ahead at a different team.

Perhaps 2014 didn't show Vettel in the most fair light. He didn't like the car, nor was he performing well in it, and then there were heaps of reliability issues that plagued him. But that shouldn't take away the extraordinary performance of Ricciardo who not only outqualified him, but also times when Ricciardo actually overtook Vettel on track in stunning, almost unbelievable fashion. Vettel also started to perform better as the season progressed, so it wasn't as if he wasn't trying.

I definitely rate Ricciardo very highly and IMO any team would be a fool not to take him, assuming they have a free seat available. If Ferrari doesn't, I could definitely see Mercedes going for him. He also seems to be quite compatible as a team-mate: Easy going, friendly, positive. All good qualities that also work with in well established competitive teams where there is already a world-champion under contract. Not sure how Vettel really feels about the prospect of being teamed-up with Ricciardo again, but I'm not sure Hamilton would mind. It's not as if he is having an easy time with Rosberg as his team-mate.

good take, but please read this: http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/op ... er-alonso/

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I definitely rate Ricciardo very highly and IMO any team would be a fool not to take him, assuming they have a free seat available. If Ferrari doesn't, I could definitely see Mercedes going for him. He also seems to be quite compatible as a team-mate: Easy going, friendly, positive. All good qualities that also work with in well established competitive teams where there is already a world-champion under contract. Not sure how Vettel really feels about the prospect of being teamed-up with Ricciardo again, but I'm not sure Hamilton would mind. It's not as if he is having an easy time with Rosberg as his team-mate.

Unlike in 2014, the situation for Ricciardo is quite different today. Back then, he wanted to get into the bigger team to get better opportunities to prove himself. Today though, he is quite a prove quantity. He would obviously look for a team that is, not just going to give him the equipment to win races but also a team that EITHER gives him No. 1 priority OR an equal status. When a question was asked in Drivers' press conference in Australia, that there are rumors of him being considered by Ferrari and would he want to partner Vettel, his body language was quite uncomfortable. Whether that is because he didn't wanted to go to Ferrari with Vettel being there, or that just the rumors are quite disturbing, I don't know. One thing is for sure, if he gets an offer at Ferrari, he sure would demand for equal status IF not No.1. Would Ferrari offer him that, at the cost of making their No. 1 driver unhappy? If an opportunity arises at Mercedes, due to Nico himself being unhappy and leaving if he ends up losing the title one more time, then Ricciardo would be happy to take Mercedes offer for the simple fact that, they have the equipment that is winning and would be ready to give equal status.

[Phil]

I'm not sure I see it that way GPR-A. I watched that press conference too and the impression I got was more of the line "huh, I'm under contract. RedBull financed, supported and invested in my career I can only be thankful of, so it would be stupid of me to entertain the idea that I could be at Ferrari". Further more, I'm not sure Ricciardo is being approached directly. I'm sure he has a manager of sorts, but more importantly, I think - and later confirmed by the same question to Horner at the later team-principals conference - he is under strict contract by RedBull.

Don't forget how quickly drivers like Buemi, Verne, Alg.... (I'm not even going to attempt to complete that name, it will end up being totally wrong anyway ) got discarded from the RedBull drivers programm... I don't think Ricciardo feels as if he has proven enough or is desirable enough to voice his wishes as a driver. The F1 driver market is very complicated at the moment. Most teams are either financially struggling or well settled with standing contracts. Getting a different, let alone better and paying driving seat is no guarantee, much less Ferrari who has been very picky in the past. I think the only 3 drivers who get to ask for drives (and have the ego to) are probably Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel. Ricciardo is far from that status, even considering 2014. F1 is a very difficult environment at the moment.

And judging by the team principal conference (watch it, I recommend it - if only for Horners reaction to that question), I think they have quite a bullet proof contract for Ricciardo sadly. Bullet proof as in, another team will have to be very sure they want him and buy him out. And I sense they wouldn't let him go easily.

Horner said something along the lines of - they invest heavily into the drivers over many years. At some point, it is expected of them to return the investment. I don't think Ricciardo has been long enough in the sport to warrant that, nor to be in a position to dictate terms. He's still very much a youngster.

And no, I don't think he is the kind of driver who would be afraid of teaming up with Vettel again. Or Hamilton. He's in a win/win situation. Against any WDC, he'd be going in as the underdog, a protegee, and as such, no one would expect him to beat them. He could only gain from it, even if he loses out.

[SR71]

I can. He's good but he's not great. Before you wheel out the tired argument that he beat Vettel, remember that Vettel probably had an exit clause if he was lower than 5th or 6th. He wanted to go to Ferrari, the Renault weren't in the same league as Ferrari and Mercedes so while he didn't exactly throw the races he probably could of finished ahead of Ricciardo. But in doing so couldn't active the exit clause.

That's a lot of selective memory at play here IMO. To understand and quantify Vettels performance of 2014, one needs to consider his options. He wasn't going to go to Mercedes. Half-way through 2014, Ferrari didnt have an opening either. They still had Alonso under contract, who has a bit of an image of being rather picky about team-mates after what happened in 2007 at McLaren (and understandably so). When you perform as well as he does, I'm sure his input carries weight. He was quite positive on Massa when the team was quantifying if to replace him or not, and later Kimi too, despite both severely underperforming at the time. Why is this important? Because I pretty much feel that during the first 3rd of 2014, Ferrari wasn't available for another driver of Vettels caliber yet, not with Alonso still being their main driver, the sponsorship with Santander probably also complex. Alonso's unhappiness, the lack of results and improvement at Ferrari and then the later management change at Ferrari all led to the situation that Alonso was looking for an out (or entertaining the idea and possible alternatives), while Vettel was pursued as a driver - later that season. At that point, or close to it, the exit-clause also played a decisive role. But before that? Nah - Vettel had no real reason or motivation to perform as he did.

Sure, it's pretty clear Vettel was always very fond of Ferrari. But performing too bad at RedBull while your younger, new team-mate is outperforming you isn't exactly the best way to sell yourself to the 'dream-team of F1'. Luckily for Vettel, it all turned out rather well despite all that. Alonso was out and Ferrari needed/wanted a driver of similar caliber, not too young, but experienced and the 4 times world-champion was a very logical choice. But I have my doubts that Vettel had any reason to perform as he did on purpose or because he all saw it forming in his mind what was going to happen months ahead at a different team.

Perhaps 2014 didn't show Vettel in the most fair light. He didn't like the car, nor was he performing well in it, and then there were heaps of reliability issues that plagued him. But that shouldn't take away the extraordinary performance of Ricciardo who not only outqualified him, but also times when Ricciardo actually overtook Vettel on track in stunning, almost unbelievable fashion. Vettel also started to perform better as the season progressed, so it wasn't as if he wasn't trying.

I definitely rate Ricciardo very highly and IMO any team would be a fool not to take him, assuming they have a free seat available. If Ferrari doesn't, I could definitely see Mercedes going for him. He also seems to be quite compatible as a team-mate: Easy going, friendly, positive. All good qualities that also work with in well established competitive teams where there is already a world-champion under contract. Not sure how Vettel really feels about the prospect of being teamed-up with Ricciardo again, but I'm not sure Hamilton would mind. It's not as if he is having an easy time with Rosberg as his team-mate.

I take it you think when the press announces something that's when it actually happened.

Vettel knew he was going to Ferrari at the end of 2013.

[SR71]

Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square

Kvyat beat DR fair and square.

[rayden]

Ricciardo hasn't built his rep solely on beating Vettel, His driving was absolutely electric when he had a competitive car (and on many occasions last year).

Vettel my have been sandbagging in 2014, Ricciardo still drove like a monster regardless imo. (Has everyone forgotten those ridiculous switch backs/dummies etc?)

Ricciardo made his talent obvious with his race craft, tyre management, consistency & bravery.

For me, how much vettel was trying in 2014 does not come into it. And I'm sure its the same for Ferrari & Merc.

[Big Mangalhit]

I fully agree with rayden. Numbers and results are for those who don't watch the races, they are highly skewed with random events. Truth is everybody saw how amazing Ric was his whole career and especially in 2014. I think every team wants to have him since he is so balanced and yet young. I think he would also welcome a move to a team that would bring him a better proposal, that's just the way it is in a sport you are the bomb today and you could be forgotten tomorrow. The question, to me, lies solely on how tight his contract really his and who will want him enough to pay for it.

[Andres125sx]

Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square

Kvyat beat DR fair and square.

And you didn´t read anyone inventing some convenient excuse

[henra]

Vettel my have been sandbagging in 2014, Ricciardo still drove like a monster regardless imo.

Sandbagging probably isn't the exactly right word.
He seemed to have rather big difficulties adapting to the new cars. He had perfected his driving style to EBD cars. Suddenly those tricks which brought big benefits in the EBD cars didn't work anymore and he had to unlearn these. (When EBD wasn't working properly beginning 2012 he had massive difficulties against Marc Webber). That unlearning took a bit to long. When he started to get accustomed to the new cars he was already on the backfoot against Daniel. Then it was surely a combination of frustration and de-motivation which made him underperform.
Even Lewis who is pretty robust by F1 standards had his Off- moments when the brakes weren't perfectly to his liking or other things in his surrounding were amiss. Those top F1 drivers are like top soccer players a bit of 'prima donnas'. Some more some less but all to some extent. You could see the frustration and unhappiness in Seb's face back then. At Ferrari he immediately felt at home and he started performing from day 1. Historically there is a close connection between state of mind and performance of an F1 driver.

[SR71]

Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square

Kvyat beat DR fair and square.

And you didn´t read anyone inventing some convenient excuse

if DR left to Goto his dream team because of an exit clause linked to his underperformance and signed one of the highest salaries in the history of the sport, you wouldn't have a pause to think about it would you . It would be just as it appears on the surface, because so many things in formula one are.

#realfansbelievethereportednews

[SectorOne]

Great reply Phil, I couldn´t explain it better, upvoted.

That is a very convenient excuse for Vettel fans, but anyone who watched that season knows Vettel simply didn´t adapt to new PUs and cars. Also, as you explained, the contract clause may have an influence in last races of the season when there was a free seat in Ferrari, but not sooner, and Vettel performed better in last part of the season so that theory of Vettel sandbagging in 2014, IMO is complete BS from Vettel fans who can´t accept Ricciardo beat him fair and square

Kvyat beat DR fair and square.

So Vettel is in third place in that little bubble then.

[jato]

Kvyat beat DR fair and square.

If that was the case you know the media, fans and team principals would all be talking about Kvyat being wanted by Merc and Ferrari yet the only thing rumoured about Kvyat is him losing his seat to Verstappen. Pretty much tells you the consensus.

Not to mention that despite 'Kvyat beating DR fair and square', all the major F1 publications still had Ricciardo in the top 5 drivers for the year. There is a lot more than just looking at the WDC standings.